Sidearming Closers On World Champs

Bruce Markusen · 02-23-2003, 12:01 AM

I'm trying to put together a list of all the World Championship teams since 1960 that have had sidearming or submarining closers. So far, I've got the following names:

2001 Diamondbacks: Byung-Hyun Kim
1985 Royals: Dan Quisenberry
1979 Pirates: Kent Tekulve
1970 Orioles: Eddie Watt
1967 Cardinals: Joe Hoerner

Does anyone know of other sidearmers/submariners that should be added to the list? Feel free to send me an e-mail or respond on this thread. Thanks.

clemente21 · 02-23-2003, 12:42 AM

2004 A's - Chad Bradford ???

Max Power · 02-23-2003, 08:05 AM

This thread has a link in it that might help: http://www.netshrine.com/vbulletin2/...&threadid=1890

SmedIndy · 02-23-2003, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Markusen
I'm trying to put together a list of all the World Championship teams since 1960 that have had sidearming or submarining closers. So far, I've got the following names:

2001 Diamondbacks: Byung-Hyun Kim
1985 Royals: Dan Quisenberry
1979 Pirates: Kent Tekulve
1970 Orioles: Eddie Watt
1967 Cardinals: Joe Hoerner

Does anyone know of other sidearmers/submariners that should be added to the list? Feel free to send me an e-mail or respond on this thread. Thanks.

I don't think Watt or Hoerner were really "closers", and Tekluve and Quiz' usage patterns were definitely not just one-inning wonders.

Perhaps "ace reliever" or "fireman"?

But it's a good query.

Rajah · 02-23-2003, 05:16 PM

Brad Clontz didn't close, but he sidearms.

TimmyB · 02-23-2003, 06:04 PM

This might be a stretch, but Eck was somewhere between 3/4 and sidearm.

You wouldn't confuse him for Tekulve or anything...

sweaver · 02-23-2003, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Max Power
This thread has a link in it that might help: http://www.netshrine.com/vbulletin2/...&threadid=1890

So, whatever happened to Dave B., anyway?

Kim, Teke and Quiz are the most obvious. I can't think of more right off.

pwdennis · 02-23-2003, 09:15 PM

The only other prominent sidewinder I can think of, Ted Abernathy, never played for a team that made it into post-season

JamesI · 02-23-2003, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SmedIndy
I don't think Watt or Hoerner were really "closers", and Tekluve and Quiz' usage patterns were definitely not just one-inning wonders.

Watt wasn't the main reliever in 1970, but did act as the "closer" in other years in Baltimore.

Bruce Markusen · 02-23-2003, 10:31 PM

Good point about Watt. He had 12 saves for the Orioles in 1970, but Pete Richert had 13 saves and was far more effective overall.

I thought about Eckersley, but wasn't really sure how to characterize him. I thought of him as more of a three-quarters guy, but maybe he was somewhere in between three-quarters and sidearm.

SmedIndy · 02-24-2003, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JamesI
Watt wasn't the main reliever in 1970, but did act as the "closer" in other years in Baltimore.

I think Weaver would have rather bunted than use a reliever in the early 70's!

Ytown Tribe fan · 02-24-2003, 07:40 PM

Here's one you may have heard of.

How about a guy pitching a complete game, winning Game 5 of the World Series, then coming back two days later in the 9th inning of the tied Game 7 and pitching 3 shutout innings to win the Series?

Walter Johnson, greatest sidearm pitcher ever.

SmedIndy · 02-24-2003, 08:32 PM

I never heard of Johnson as a sidearmer! Or at least a pure sidearmer. Oh, to have video!

Ytown Tribe fan · 02-24-2003, 08:49 PM

I base that on the descriptions given by the HoF and by Ty Cobb on Johnson's pitching style.

From the HoF: "There were no sophisticated measuring devices in the early 1900s, but Walter Johnson's fastball was considered to be in a class by itself. Using a sweeping sidearm delivery, the "Big Train" fanned 3,508 over a brilliant 21-year career with the Washington Senators, and his 110 shutouts are more than any pitcher."

Ty Cobb, in Voices from Cooperstown: "He was a tall, shambling galoot of about twenty with arms so long they hung far out of his sleeves and with a side-arm delivery that looked unimpressive at first glance."

Ytown Tribe fan · 02-24-2003, 09:59 PM

Another example is Gettysburg Eddie Plank, who (according to the accounts I could find) possessed a wonderful sidearm curveball to go with his fastball.

Plank pitched a complete game victory in Game 2 of the 1911 WS. In Game 5, Earl Coombs started and went 9, leaving with the score tied at 3 apiece; Plank pitched the 10th, giving up a run and losing. The A's won the 6th and deciding game behind Chief Bender.

Like Johnson, Plank certainly wasn't a "closer", but was the best pitcher on a fine staff who came in to save the day on short rest in a World Series. Johnson came up big in his WS relief appearance; Plank didn't, but his team lived to win the next game and the Series.

Also, doesn't Jesse Orosco throw mainly a sidearm curve? He got two saves for the Mets in the '86 WS.

02-23-2003, 12:01 AM	#1
Bruce Markusen NetShrine MVP Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Cooperstown, NY Posts: 213	Sidearming Closers On World Champs I'm trying to put together a list of all the World Championship teams since 1960 that have had sidearming or submarining closers. So far, I've got the following names: 2001 Diamondbacks: Byung-Hyun Kim 1985 Royals: Dan Quisenberry 1979 Pirates: Kent Tekulve 1970 Orioles: Eddie Watt 1967 Cardinals: Joe Hoerner Does anyone know of other sidearmers/submariners that should be added to the list? Feel free to send me an e-mail or respond on this thread. Thanks. __________________ Author of the book, Tales From The Mets Dugout, available from Sports Publishing.

02-23-2003, 08:05 AM	#3
Max Power NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: May 2002 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 5,548	This thread has a link in it that might help: http://www.netshrine.com/vbulletin2/...&threadid=1890 __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator "They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go." That's why there's NetShrine.com

02-23-2003, 05:16 PM	#5
Rajah NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,177	Brad Clontz didn't close, but he sidearms. __________________ Why does Aubrey Huff looked so mad in his picture? Oh wait...

02-23-2003, 09:15 PM	#8
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	The only other prominent sidewinder I can think of, Ted Abernathy, never played for a team that made it into post-season __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

02-23-2003, 10:31 PM	#10
Bruce Markusen NetShrine MVP Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Cooperstown, NY Posts: 213	Good point about Watt. He had 12 saves for the Orioles in 1970, but Pete Richert had 13 saves and was far more effective overall. I thought about Eckersley, but wasn't really sure how to characterize him. I thought of him as more of a three-quarters guy, but maybe he was somewhere in between three-quarters and sidearm. __________________ Author of the book, Tales From The Mets Dugout, available from Sports Publishing.

02-23-2003, 12:42 AM	#2
clemente21 All-NetShrine Team Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 461	2004 A's - Chad Bradford ???

02-23-2003, 06:04 PM	#6
TimmyB NetShrine's Magic 8-Ball Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Where the cops speak slow and the air is nice Posts: 2,591	This might be a stretch, but Eck was somewhere between 3/4 and sidearm. You wouldn't confuse him for Tekulve or anything...

02-24-2003, 07:40 PM	#12
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Here's one you may have heard of. How about a guy pitching a complete game, winning Game 5 of the World Series, then coming back two days later in the 9th inning of the tied Game 7 and pitching 3 shutout innings to win the Series? Walter Johnson, greatest sidearm pitcher ever.

02-24-2003, 08:32 PM	#13
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	I never heard of Johnson as a sidearmer! Or at least a pure sidearmer. Oh, to have video!

02-24-2003, 08:49 PM	#14
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	I base that on the descriptions given by the HoF and by Ty Cobb on Johnson's pitching style. From the HoF: "There were no sophisticated measuring devices in the early 1900s, but Walter Johnson's fastball was considered to be in a class by itself. Using a sweeping sidearm delivery, the "Big Train" fanned 3,508 over a brilliant 21-year career with the Washington Senators, and his 110 shutouts are more than any pitcher." Ty Cobb, in Voices from Cooperstown: "He was a tall, shambling galoot of about twenty with arms so long they hung far out of his sleeves and with a side-arm delivery that looked unimpressive at first glance."

02-24-2003, 09:59 PM	#15
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Plank and Orosco Another example is Gettysburg Eddie Plank, who (according to the accounts I could find) possessed a wonderful sidearm curveball to go with his fastball. Plank pitched a complete game victory in Game 2 of the 1911 WS. In Game 5, Earl Coombs started and went 9, leaving with the score tied at 3 apiece; Plank pitched the 10th, giving up a run and losing. The A's won the 6th and deciding game behind Chief Bender. Like Johnson, Plank certainly wasn't a "closer", but was the best pitcher on a fine staff who came in to save the day on short rest in a World Series. Johnson came up big in his WS relief appearance; Plank didn't, but his team lived to win the next game and the Series. Also, doesn't Jesse Orosco throw mainly a sidearm curve? He got two saves for the Mets in the '86 WS. Last edited by Ytown Tribe fan : 02-24-2003 at 10:15 PM.

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