ALCS Thoughts, Predictions, etc.

[NetShrine]

What I was referring to:

YEAR PLACE W L PCT GB
1965 6th 77 85 .475 25
1966 10th 70 89 .440 26.5
1967 9th 72 90 .444 20
1968 5th 83 79 .512 20
1969 5th 80 81 .497 28.5
1970 2nd 93 69 .574 20.5
1971 4th 82 80 .506 21
1972 4th 79 76 .510 6.5
1973 4th 80 82 .494 17
1974 2nd 89 73 .549 2
1975 3rd 83 77 .519 12

1982 5th 79 83 .488 16
1983 3rd 91 71 .562 7
1984 3rd 87 75 .537 17
1985 2nd 97 64 .602 2
1986 2nd 90 72 .556 5.5
1987 4th 89 73 .549 9
1988 5th 85 76 .528 3.5
1989 5th 74 87 .460 14.5
1990 7th 67 95 .414 21
1991 5th 71 91 .438 20
1992 T4th 76 86 .469 20

OK, maybe 1974, 1985 and 1986 were not terrible? Still, they didn't taste great and were less than filling.

[BuzzBuzzard]

As a tri-state area guy my whole life, it would have been to easy to be a Yankee fan. Every kid loves a winner. That's why the Cowboys have such a following. Being a Yankee fan is taking the very easy road, as far as I am concerned.

[ChrisCary]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
As a tri-state area guy my whole life, it would have been to easy to be a Yankee fan. Every kid loves a winner. That's why the Cowboys have such a following. Being a Yankee fan is taking the very easy road, as far as I am concerned.

It's not that easy.
Year after year you gotta buy those expensive World Series tickets, an overpriced Word Champion shirt, you gotta take a day off for the annual parade.

Now that I think about it it's much harder to be a Yankee fan.


Seriously,
It's not about easy or hard, it's how you were raised. Being a Yankee fan is as much a chopice of mine as the color of my skin

[mainsr]

Well, Buzz, I'd say this: Being a Yankee fan is more a NATURAL choice than an EASY one. The Yankees, like the Giants, have a long history in NYC. The Jets and Mets not only are relative newcomers, but they play in Queens, fer crissakes. (Yes, I know the Mets started at the Polo Grounds). I think the Yankees are just naturally the team lots of people follow, just like the waiting list for Giants tickets is miles long and the Jets' isn't.

But I still hate 'em.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Natural or Easy - it is semantics. I think we are saying the same thing.

[NetShrine]

I still think that 99% of the time, it's your family and your friends who direct you towards the team you root for - - regardless of geography. You either pick the same team as them, because you want to be "with them" or you pick the team they hate because you do not want to be with them.

As far as the Yanks and Mets, I think it goes back in the family line - - most Met Fans (older than 20) like the Mets since their families rooted for either the Giants or Dodgers (and against the Yanks).

Is it a good or bad thing that we always get ?

Yankees in 6, I'm sticking with my team no matter what. I only root for one baseball team and nothing will change this, win or lose. I wished Cleveland the best in 97 but that didn't happen for them.

I've seen in the papers where Yankee fans had relatives who were Mets fans. Nothing unusual since people all live and work in the same places.

Originally posted by NetShrine
I still think that 99% of the time, it's your family and your friends who direct you towards the team you root for - - regardless of geography. You either pick the same team as them, because you want to be "with them" or you pick the team they hate because you do not want to be with them.

As far as the Yanks and Mets, I think it goes back in the family line - - most Met Fans (older than 20) like the Mets since their families rooted for either the Giants or Dodgers (and against the Yanks).

Is it a good or bad thing that we always get ?

Some people just disagree with the team their relatives liked. I can't like Keith Hernandez or Gary Carter simply because my brother did and he can't like Don Mattingly or Graig Nettles because I did. Everyone makes their own decision.

As far as off topic, ideas will come to people's mind which are related to something discussed but still different. If it's too far off, start another thread is what I say.

[NetShrine]

Was this the smart thing for Lou to do?

Piniella promises: ``We will be back''

By JIM COUR
.c The Associated Press

SEATTLE (AP) - Lou Piniella might have more fire left in him than his team.

After watching the New York Yankees beat Seattle for the second straight game Thursday night, the Mariners manager defiantly promised the Mariners will play at Safeco Field again this season.

``I'm going to tell you all right here. We will be back here for Game 6. Just print it,'' Piniella loudly told reporters after watching his team lose 3-2 to Mike Mussina and the Yankees.

The Mariners will be hard pressed to keep Piniella's promise. They're down 2-0 in the best-of-seven series and need to win two of the next three at Yankee Stadium for the teams to meet in Game 6 in Seattle on Wednesday.

``I've got confidence in my club,'' Piniella said. ``We've gone to New York and beat this team five out of six times. We're going to do it again.''

[95mph]

Here's a nice little article for all you Yankee haters.

http://espn.go.com/magazine/keown_20011019.html

Give it up. Stop now. You know it's not worth it. It's better to stop rooting against the Yankees than to persist with the idea that somebody might beat them. You're powerless. Admit it.

How many hours and how much energy has been wasted on hoping someone would knock off the Pinstripes and give us a different look in October? There's got to be an accelerated 12-step that might help all the anti-Yanks get through the next three weeks.

If you root against the Yankees, you're as powerless as the A's with runners in scoring position, or Dan Wilson facing Mariano Rivera. The Yankees are made for this, the five-game and seven-game sprints that define the season.

Getting there is not the objective. The Yankees don't get serious until losing means something, until it becomes a threat. Then they become as precise and consistent as a piece of machinery.

Even while winning 116 games, the Mariners had the look of a marathon team, a group better suited to 162 than five or seven. In other words, the Mariners look more like the Braves of the past decade than the Yankees of today.

That might still prove to be the wrong assessment, but the best advice is to watch dispassionately, appreciate the purity of the baseball and the consistency of the effort. And admit that just this once, New York deserves this one.

After all, what choice is there? The truth is, we already know how this one ends.



GO YANKEES! THE MARINERS

[mainsr]

Originally posted by 95mph
Give it up. Stop now. You know it's not worth it. It's better to stop rooting against the Yankees than to persist with the idea that somebody might beat them. You're powerless. Admit it.

Look, you don't understand the mindset of a Yankee hater. I don't THINK somebody is going to beat them. I desperately HOPE somebody will. The Yankees represent absolute evil. But that doesn't mean I expect evil to be vanquished. There will always be psycopathic killers, rabid dogs, terrorists, repressive governments, and the New York Yankees. When they are beaten, even if only for a short while, the world becomes a better place in which to live. I fervently hope for the day when all the murderers are executed, when dogs don't get rabies, when we bomb all the terrorists, when all governments are democracies, and when the Yankees aren't in the postseason. But I don't expect all of them to happen this week, or this year, or this season.

Powerless? Well, I can't do anything more to help the Mariners than I can to help the U.S. Special Forces in Afghanistan. But I can give them my full support and defend them in all public forums, because they are on a mission that I truly believe is just.

And for the record: Yankees take the AL in five and the Series in five. I spend another year unable to watch an inning of the postseason and I have to spend the entire winter listening to you insufferable blowhards gloat.

If the trade is that we kill bin Laden and whoever's sending anthrax in the mail, it's OK with me.

[BuzzBuzzard]

When you give up hope, what else do you have?

Let's Go M's!

Mainsr, two questions. 1, is Seattle really your team (if not, which one is)? 2, why are you so against them? From the 80s through 95 they didn't win anything.

Are they like Microsoft to you? If so, I presume you're not running Wnidows software at the moment,right?

[NetShrine]

Yankee fans - please don't rag on the non-Yankee fans. They have a right to speak their piece. Thanks. Shifting gears, look you just jumped on the Yankee bandwagon:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/morgan_joe/1266399.html

October 19
Yankees own baseball's secret formula
By Joe Morgan
Special to ESPN.com

People find reasons to dislike the New York Yankees. They've won too many championships. They have the highest payroll. But love them or hate them, the Yankees continue to show everyone why they have won three straight world championships and four of the last five. It's by design, not luck.

The Yankees have winning down to as much of an exact science as one can get in baseball. Normally, baseball is not a sport in which one can put two parts hydrogen with one part oxygen to make water. But the Yankees have scientifically concocted the formula for success -- teamwork plus professionalism equals championships.

True baseball fans should enjoy watching the Yankees play. They play as a team and know how to win. When the other team makes a mistake, the Yankees win. They can beat teams 1-0, as they did in Game 3 of the AL Division Series against Oakland, or 10-9. They do it with pitching, hitting, defense -- whatever it takes.

Look at what the Yankees have done to go up 2-0 in the ALCS. Against the Yankees' pitchers, the Seattle Mariners have been unable to get their speed on base enough to manufacture runs.

In addition, the Yankees have the most dominant weapon I've ever seen in postseason play -- Mariano Rivera. He is Whitey Ford and Bob Gibson wrapped into one. The difference is that Ford and Gibson pitched every fourth day, and he pitches every time the Yankees have a late-inning lead. When the game gets to Rivera, it's over.

And his dominance isn't limited to the ninth inning. Rivera has converted 22 straight postseason save opportunities. In 18 of the 22, he has pitched more than one inning to get the save. If the game gets to the eighth inning and the Yankees have a lead, the other team can start worrying about the next day's starting pitching.

I'm amazed every time I see Rivera pitch. He combines ice-water nerves with superior control and great stuff. He only uses two pitches -- a cut fastball and a tailing fastball -- but he never leaves a pitch over the middle of the plate. He overpowers hitters working one corner or the other. Rivera makes good hitters look defensive from the first pitch he throws. He never gives them a good pitch to hit.

And then there is Joe Torre. With everyone but Rivera, he puts players in positions where they can succeed. He only uses Ramiro Mendoza and Mike Stanton against certain parts of the lineup. He picks his spots for his players and no longer has an everyday set lineup. But there is no picking and choosing with Rivera. In fact, over the last four regular seasons, he has been tougher on lefties (.192) than righties (.213).

Torre knows how to handle his team to perfection. When Alfonso Soriano didn't run out a ball recently, Torre called him into his office after the game. He didn't make a big deal about it publicly, but Torre made sure Soriano understood that a lack of hustle should never happen again.

Meanwhile, in the Mariners' clubhouse, Lou Piniella is trying to send a wakeup call to his team. I only heard part of Piniella's postgame press conference Thursday night because I was leaving Safeco Park. He was demonstrative and upset, but he was also angry when I talked to him after Game 1.

Piniella felt his team had not performed the way he expected. I agree with him, except the Yankees have a tendency to force teams away from their strengths. When the Yankees played the Braves in the 1996 World Series, I thought John Smoltz, Tom Glavine and Greg Maddux would stop them, which they did in the first two games. But the Yankees stormed back to sweep the final four games.

I like what Piniella did, guaranteeing the Mariners would return to Seattle for Game 6. Not only did he shake up his team, but he also threw down the gauntlet at the Yankees. By saying the Yankees were just waiting to get beat, he was yelling more at them than his own team. In some cases, what Piniella said could make the other team angry or get out of their game.

The Mariners like Piniella and don't want to disappoint him. While they have played hard, the Mariners will show a more controlled focus in Game 3 on Saturday. I expect them to play relaxed instead of tightening up. Players like Bret Boone and John Olerud, who have struggled in the postseason, will feel less pressure now to do something special. The onus is on everyone, including Piniella, not just a few players. Now, the Mariners have to go beat the Yankees, a difficult task considering they must win four of five games, the first three coming at Yankee Stadium.

I understand Piniella's optimism. They have their best pitcher of the moment, Jamie Moyer, pitching Game 3, the most important game of the season, against Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez. Then the Mariners must fight their way through Sunday and Monday, with Paul Abbott and Aaron Sele. The Mariners have a better chance against Clemens in Game 4 than any other Yankee starter because he is not 100 percent healthy. If the Mariners can get back to Seattle with a 3-2 series deficit, they would go with Garcia and Moyer, their two best, on proper rest for Games 6 and 7.

It's not over. As the Yankees showed in the '96 Series, a team can come back to win a seven-game series after losing the first two games at home. It's not as devastating as losing the first two games at home in a five-game series.

And yes, the Yankees have overcome that scenario as well. Then again, they hold the secret formula and an ultimate weapon named Rivera.

Hall of Fame second baseman Joe Morgan is a baseball analyst for ESPN. He is calling the American League Championship Series for ESPN Radio.

That said and done, if someone tells me they're a Yankee hater, I don't find it inconceivable for me to ask why they'd feel this way. Had I come in and said I hated Mets, Sox, Cards, Braves, there are fans of all those teams, and I guess Satch is a Padres fan since he's got the Gwynn avatar.

I'm also tired of hearing it's the umps fault, Fox doesn't want the Mariners to play in WS, even though ESPN had said the Mariners and Athletics would be such an interesting matchup. If the Yankees are playing great baseball, even winning at times when they've got their best stuff, why would you be against this? If Unit, Maddux, anybody pitches a great game, I'm not against this.

I just feel that eventually, but not today or the day afterwards, people will realize that everyone has a right to choose their team, whichever team that may be. That Don Mattingly #23 is one of the biggest stars of the winless 80s shows that not all Yankee fans only look for the rings. Some of us also look for the guts to win, just like what Thurmie displayed so many years ago. That to me is also a strong part of Yankee history.