Here's 10 from out in left field...

sweaver · 01-24-2003, 02:45 PM

The top ten left fielders, according to sweaver...

10. Billy Williams

9. Al Simmons

8. Ed Delahanty

7. Tim Raines

6. Pete Rose

5. Carl Yastrzemski

4. Rickey Henderson

3. Stan Musial

2. Ted Williams

1. Barry Bonds

KCBOOMER · 01-24-2003, 03:07 PM

10. Billy Williams
9. Minnie Minoso
8. Al Simmons
7. Yaz
6. Jesse Burkett
5. Rickey
4. Ed Delahanty
3. Stan Musial
2. Barry Bonds
1. Ted Williams

Left field is a little awkward as a number players didn't play a tremendous number of games out there. Pete Rose had less than 800 games out there. Stan Musial only had 950 games. Al Simmons and Ed Delahanty didn't reach the 1400 game plateau.

pwdennis · 01-24-2003, 03:20 PM

I would think that everyone would have the same individuals in their top three with perhaps some variation in sequence

01 Ted Williams
02 Barry Bonds
03 Stan Musial
04 Ed Delahanty
05 Carl Yastrzemski
06 Rickey Henderson
07 Al Simmons
08 Minnie Minoso
09 Billy Williams
10 Minnie Minoso

honorable mention

Jim Rice
Pete Rose
Tim Raines
Jesse Burkett

Fuzzy Bear · 01-24-2003, 03:51 PM

01 Stan Musial
02 Ted Williams
03 Barry Bonds
04 Rickey Henderson
05 Al Simmons
06 Tim Raines
07 Carl Yastrzemski
08 Lou Brock
09 Billy Williams
10 Minnie Minoso

I rate Pete Rose as a multi-position star, along with Dick Allen, Paul Molitor, Rod Carew, Darrell Evans. I consider a multi-position star to be a player who either (A) played all around the diamond or (B) played about half of his career at 2B, SS, or 3B and the rest of his career in the OF, or at 1B.

Stan Musial, while active, was perceived to be the most valuble player of his generation, according to MVP voting. He won three (3) MVP award, and received a larger % of MVP votes in his career than even Mickey Mantle. Ted Williams was a greater hitter; that is clear, and Musial was not a great defensive outfielder (although he was probably better than Ted).

Subjectively, I would pick Musial to play on my team. While active, he set a better example for other players to follow. (Ted made up for it, post-career, however, when he used his HOF induction speech to call for full enshrinement of Negro League greats in the HOF; it's just that I would prefer my ACTIVE players to not smash water coolers, give the finger to fans, etc. I don't really believe that helps the team win.)

TGwynn19 · 01-24-2003, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear
01 Stan Musial

Fuzzy,

I have for the most part agreed with your opinions....but Stan 1st??? You had better have some good numbers to back that up.....

LeGrandOrange · 01-24-2003, 07:38 PM

#2 and #3 are extremely close to #1 unsurprisingly.

1. Ted Williams
2. Barry Bonds
3. Rickey Henderson
4. Stan Musial
5. Carl Yastrzemski
6. Ed Delahanty
7. Al Simmons
8. Billy Williams
9. Fred Clarke
10. Pete Rose

BTW, Minoso is on your list twice, Fuzzy.

pwdennis · 01-24-2003, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear
Stan Musial , while active, was perceived to be the most valuble player of his generation, according to MVP voting. He won three (3) MVP award, and received a larger % of MVP votes in his career than even Mickey Mantle. Ted Williams was a greater hitter; that is clear, and Musial was not a great defensive outfielder (although he was probably better than Ted).

This is true but misleading as it comes with a large (very large) caveat which is that Musial lost one season to Military service whereas Williams lost five seasons, all of which would have found him high in the MVP balloting. Musial played 22 seasons (21 full seasons) - 3026 games . Williams played 19 seasons (15 full seasons - full season meaning 100+ games) - 2292 games.

In other words, Musial played 734 games more than Williams for which he produced 151 more runs scored and 112 more RBI.

Stan the Man was great and one of baseball's best ambassadors, but even he would tell you he wasn't in the Splinter's class. It's no disgrace to not be as great as Ted Williams- only Barry Bonds and Babe Ruth are in that category.

Ytown Tribe fan · 01-25-2003, 10:15 AM

I'm with pwdennis. Minnie was so good, you'd have to list him TWICE in the top-10! Once for his big league career, and once for his Cuban and Negro leagues careers.

pwdennis · 01-25-2003, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ytown Tribe fan
I'm with pwdennis. Minnie was so good, you'd have to list him TWICE in the top-10! Once for his big league career, and once for his Cuban and Negro leagues careers.

Minnie was great but # 10 should be Ed Delahanty (even though the homer in me wanted to slot Jim Rice there)

JamesI · 01-25-2003, 02:05 PM

1) Ted Williams
2) Barry Bonds (could be #1 in a year or 2)
3) Stan the Man
4) Rickey Henderson
5) Shoeless Joe Jackson
6) Carl Yaztremski
7) Ed Delehanty
8) Willie Stargell (more games is left than anywhere else)
9) Tim Raines
10) Billy Williams

pathogan · 01-27-2003, 07:49 PM

Williams
Musial
Bonds
Rickey
Joe Jackson
Delahantey
Orestes minoso
Yaz
Billy Williams
Tim Raines[uber-underrated}

sweaver · 02-06-2003, 03:04 PM

Here's a more complete list, with rank, name, WARP3 career score, and peak Win Shares--
1. Barry Bonds 194.5 146 340.5
2. Ted Williams 170.1 139 309.1*
3. Stan Musial 188.2 131 319.2
4. Rickey Henderson 189.6 111 300.6
5. Carl Yastrzemski 157.0 117 274.0
6. Pete Rose 148.4 103 251.4
7. Tim Raines 139.3 102 241.3
8. Ed Delahanty 114.7 107 221.7
9. Al Simmons 113.5 104 217.5
10. Billy Williams 119.3 96 215.3
11. Joe Medwick 100.9 109 209.0
12. Jesse Burkett 93.5 103 196.5
13. Fred Clarke 105.1 90 195.1
14. Albert Belle 96.1 98 194.1
15. Minnie Minoso 80.9 90 170.9*
16. Joe Jackson 75.8 113 188.8
17. Willie Stargell 88.3 100 188.3
18. Zack Wheat 92.9 95 187.9
19. Bob Johnson 101.0 86 187.0
20. Jim Rice 92.6 92 184.6
21. Goose Goslin 90.7 93 183.7
22. Jose Cruz 96.1 86 182.1
23. Jimmy Sheckard 86.0 96 182.0
24. Brian Downing 99.6 81 180.6
25. Ralph Kiner 77.0 102 179.0
26. Lou Brock 87.3 91 178.3
27. George Foster 91.0 87 178.0
28. Roy White 85.2 92 177.2
29. Luis Gonzalez 85.8 90 175.8
30. Frank Howard 73.7 102 175.7
31. Augie Galan 81.3 94 175.3
32. Bobby Veach 82.0 93 175.0
33. Charlie Keller 64.8 102 166.8
* = credit given for war service or segregation.

sweaver · 02-07-2003, 01:26 PM

Edited to add 19th century player Joe Kelley.

Quote:

Originally posted by sweaver
Here's a more complete list, with rank, name, WARP3 career score, and peak Win Shares--
1. Barry Bonds 194.5 146 340.5
2. Ted Williams 170.1 139 309.1*
3. Stan Musial 188.2 131 319.2
4. Rickey Henderson 189.6 111 300.6
5. Carl Yastrzemski 157.0 117 274.0
6. Pete Rose 148.4 103 251.4
7. Tim Raines 139.3 102 241.3
8. Ed Delahanty 114.7 107 221.7
9. Al Simmons 113.5 104 217.5
10. Billy Williams 119.3 96 215.3
11. Joe Medwick 100.9 109 209.0
12. Jesse Burkett 93.5 103 196.5
13. Fred Clarke 105.1 90 195.1
14. Albert Belle 96.1 98 194.1
15. Minnie Minoso 80.9 90 170.9*
16. Joe Jackson 75.8 113 188.8
17. Willie Stargell 88.3 100 188.3
18. Zack Wheat 92.9 95 187.9
19. Bob Johnson 101.0 86 187.0
20. Jim Rice 92.6 92 184.6
21. Goose Goslin 90.7 93 183.7
22. Jose Cruz 96.1 86 182.1
23. Jimmy Sheckard 86.0 96 182.0
24. Brian Downing 99.6 81 180.6
25. Ralph Kiner 77.0 102 179.0
26. Lou Brock 87.3 91 178.3
27. George Foster 91.0 87 178.0
28. Roy White 85.2 92 177.2
29. Joe Kelley 85.9 91 176.9
29. Luis Gonzalez 85.8 90 175.8
30. Frank Howard 73.7 102 175.7
31. Augie Galan 81.3 94 175.3
32. Bobby Veach 82.0 93 175.0
33. Charlie Keller 64.8 102 166.8
* = credit given for war service or segregation.

01-27-2003, 07:49 PM	#11
pathogan william Blake's Innkeeper Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 2,828	okay Williams Musial Bonds Rickey Joe Jackson Delahantey Orestes minoso Yaz Billy Williams Tim Raines[uber-underrated}

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01-24-2003, 02:45 PM	#1
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Here's 10 from out in left field... The top ten left fielders, according to sweaver... 10. Billy Williams 9. Al Simmons 8. Ed Delahanty 7. Tim Raines 6. Pete Rose 5. Carl Yastrzemski 4. Rickey Henderson 3. Stan Musial 2. Ted Williams 1. Barry Bonds

01-24-2003, 03:07 PM	#2
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	10. Billy Williams 9. Minnie Minoso 8. Al Simmons 7. Yaz 6. Jesse Burkett 5. Rickey 4. Ed Delahanty 3. Stan Musial 2. Barry Bonds 1. Ted Williams Left field is a little awkward as a number players didn't play a tremendous number of games out there. Pete Rose had less than 800 games out there. Stan Musial only had 950 games. Al Simmons and Ed Delahanty didn't reach the 1400 game plateau. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

01-24-2003, 03:20 PM	#3
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	I would think that everyone would have the same individuals in their top three with perhaps some variation in sequence 01 Ted Williams 02 Barry Bonds 03 Stan Musial 04 Ed Delahanty 05 Carl Yastrzemski 06 Rickey Henderson 07 Al Simmons 08 Minnie Minoso 09 Billy Williams 10 Minnie Minoso honorable mention Jim Rice Pete Rose Tim Raines Jesse Burkett __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

01-24-2003, 03:51 PM	#4
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	01 Stan Musial 02 Ted Williams 03 Barry Bonds 04 Rickey Henderson 05 Al Simmons 06 Tim Raines 07 Carl Yastrzemski 08 Lou Brock 09 Billy Williams 10 Minnie Minoso I rate Pete Rose as a multi-position star, along with Dick Allen, Paul Molitor, Rod Carew, Darrell Evans. I consider a multi-position star to be a player who either (A) played all around the diamond or (B) played about half of his career at 2B, SS, or 3B and the rest of his career in the OF, or at 1B. Stan Musial, while active, was perceived to be the most valuble player of his generation, according to MVP voting. He won three (3) MVP award, and received a larger % of MVP votes in his career than even Mickey Mantle. Ted Williams was a greater hitter; that is clear, and Musial was not a great defensive outfielder (although he was probably better than Ted). Subjectively, I would pick Musial to play on my team. While active, he set a better example for other players to follow. (Ted made up for it, post-career, however, when he used his HOF induction speech to call for full enshrinement of Negro League greats in the HOF; it's just that I would prefer my ACTIVE players to not smash water coolers, give the finger to fans, etc. I don't really believe that helps the team win.)

01-24-2003, 07:38 PM	#6
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	#2 and #3 are extremely close to #1 unsurprisingly. 1. Ted Williams 2. Barry Bonds 3. Rickey Henderson 4. Stan Musial 5. Carl Yastrzemski 6. Ed Delahanty 7. Al Simmons 8. Billy Williams 9. Fred Clarke 10. Pete Rose BTW, Minoso is on your list twice, Fuzzy.

01-25-2003, 10:15 AM	#8
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	I'm with pwdennis. Minnie was so good, you'd have to list him TWICE in the top-10! Once for his big league career, and once for his Cuban and Negro leagues careers.

01-25-2003, 02:05 PM	#10
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	1) Ted Williams 2) Barry Bonds (could be #1 in a year or 2) 3) Stan the Man 4) Rickey Henderson 5) Shoeless Joe Jackson 6) Carl Yaztremski 7) Ed Delehanty 8) Willie Stargell (more games is left than anywhere else) 9) Tim Raines 10) Billy Williams

02-06-2003, 03:04 PM	#12
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Here's a more complete list, with rank, name, WARP3 career score, and peak Win Shares-- 1. Barry Bonds 194.5 146 340.5 2. Ted Williams 170.1 139 309.1* 3. Stan Musial 188.2 131 319.2 4. Rickey Henderson 189.6 111 300.6 5. Carl Yastrzemski 157.0 117 274.0 6. Pete Rose 148.4 103 251.4 7. Tim Raines 139.3 102 241.3 8. Ed Delahanty 114.7 107 221.7 9. Al Simmons 113.5 104 217.5 10. Billy Williams 119.3 96 215.3 11. Joe Medwick 100.9 109 209.0 12. Jesse Burkett 93.5 103 196.5 13. Fred Clarke 105.1 90 195.1 14. Albert Belle 96.1 98 194.1 15. Minnie Minoso 80.9 90 170.9* 16. Joe Jackson 75.8 113 188.8 17. Willie Stargell 88.3 100 188.3 18. Zack Wheat 92.9 95 187.9 19. Bob Johnson 101.0 86 187.0 20. Jim Rice 92.6 92 184.6 21. Goose Goslin 90.7 93 183.7 22. Jose Cruz 96.1 86 182.1 23. Jimmy Sheckard 86.0 96 182.0 24. Brian Downing 99.6 81 180.6 25. Ralph Kiner 77.0 102 179.0 26. Lou Brock 87.3 91 178.3 27. George Foster 91.0 87 178.0 28. Roy White 85.2 92 177.2 29. Luis Gonzalez 85.8 90 175.8 30. Frank Howard 73.7 102 175.7 31. Augie Galan 81.3 94 175.3 32. Bobby Veach 82.0 93 175.0 33. Charlie Keller 64.8 102 166.8 * = credit given for war service or segregation.

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