Third base? I don't know! How about these 10 guys?

sweaver · 01-23-2003, 08:16 PM

My picks for the top ten at third base. BTW, this is the thinnest position overall, except perhaps for catcher. At least catchers have an excuse for short career length.

10. Graig Nettles

9. Stan Hack

8. Darrell Evans

7. Brooks Robinson

6. Paul Molitor

5. Ron Santo

4. George Brett

3. Eddie Mathews

2. Wade Boggs

1. Mike Schmidt

Home Run Baker? His two layoff years and subsequent short career hurt him. He ranks #11. He would be the oldest player on this list by a long shot.

JamesI · 01-23-2003, 08:23 PM

I'm sure I'm being a

here, but oh well. Can't be a homer since I've never lived in Baltimore.

10 Pie Traynor

9 Home Run Baker

8 Paul Molitor (I always think of him as a DH)

7 Ron Santo

6 Wade Boggs

5 Harmon Killebrew

4 Brooks Robinson

3 George Brett

2 Eddie Mathews

1 Mike Schmidt

edited to add Killebrew, how did I forget him?

LeGrandOrange · 01-23-2003, 08:26 PM

Like second base, the top 4 is real close.

1. Mike Schmidt
2. Eddie Mathews
3. George Brett
4. Wade Boggs
5. Ron Santo
6. Harmon Killebrew (I think of him here)
7. Brooks Robinson
8. Stan Hack
9. Darrell Evans
10. Ken Boyer

I VERY nearly considered Lave Cross of all people on this list at #10, he was his era's Brooksie. He might actually make the list if Killebrew isn't a 3B in my book. That's how weak this position is.
(I think of Molly as a DH BTW)

pwdennis · 01-23-2003, 10:17 PM

Third base is a thin position, historically speaking. When I started following baseball in 1960, and for about a decade thereafter, most of the sportswriters, and all of the baseball books available at the time, pointed to Pie Traynor as the greatest 3B of all time, although my pick at that time would have been Jimmie Collins with Traynor or John McGraw second. Note that these are three names almost never mentioned at all anymore in any listing of all-time great 3Bs. If we tried to list an all-time top 25 it would be an impossible task with names like Frank Malzone, Clete Boyer, Joe Dugan and Don Hoak being about as good as anyone else you could name.

If you want to consider Killebrew as a 3B, he is very difficult to assess. He would have to be considered the number one offensive force (he had more power than either Schmidt or Mathews) but defensively he was marginal, far better suited to play somewhere else. I chose to think of Killebrew as belonging elsewhere. I am perfectly open to considering Dave Kingman as a hot corner man since his play there wasn't much worse than his play at any other position !

My list :

01. Mike Schmidt
02. Wade Boggs
03. George Brett
04. Eddie Mathews
05. Ron Santo
06. Brooks Robinson
07. Jimmie Collins
08. Stan Hack
09. Ken Boyer
10. Craig Nettles

KCBOOMER · 01-24-2003, 10:42 AM

1 Mike Schmidt
2 George Brett
3 Eddie Mathews
4 Ron Santo
5 Home Run Baker
6 Wade Boggs
7 Ken Boyer
8 Brooks Robinson
9 Stan Hack
10 Jimmy Collins

I am shocked at how little love HR Baker is getting. He played over 1500 games at 3B which isn't chopped liver.

I know 3B is a little thin but to have 9 of the top to be from the age of TV is a bit much.

I left Molitor off becuase he didn't even play 1000 games at 3B, but he is clearly better than several of the players on this list.

sweaver · 01-24-2003, 12:00 PM

Killebrew: 1B 969 games, 3B 791 games, LF 470 games.

If I ranked him at third (I have him as a 1B) he would have been tenth, in place of Nettles. His main problem is an almost complete lack of defensive value.

Molitor: DH 1174 games, 3B 791 games, 2B 400 games, 1B 197 games, SS 57 games, OF 50 games. Since I don't have a DH category, I rank Molly as a 3B. He did play the field more than DH, he just DH'd more than any position.

sweaver · 01-24-2003, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KCBOOMER
I know 3B is a little thin but to have 9 of the top to be from the age of TV is a bit much.

After Baker at #11, the next "pre-TV" guy on my list is Bob Elliott at #16, or if that is too recent it's Jimmy Collins at #18.

SmedIndy · 01-24-2003, 12:33 PM

Home Run Baker is a top 5er, SW. Me thinks you discount him too much. He was the key to the A's success.

WiredTiger · 01-24-2003, 03:04 PM

10. Darrell Evans
9. Brooks Robinson
8. Paul Molitor
7. Ron Santo
6. Home Run Baker
5. Harmon killebrew
4. Wade Boggs
3. George Brett
2. Eddie Mathews
1. Mike Schmidt

Schmidt, Matthews, Brett and Boggs are far ahead of the others. Mathews is a very underrated player. I guess the 80s and 90s were the golden era of the 3B.

Fuzzy Bear · 01-24-2003, 03:31 PM

01 Eddie Mathews
02 Mike Schmidt
03 George Brett
04 Wade Boggs
05 Brooks Robinson
06 Ken Boyer
07 Ron Santo
08 Stan Hack
09 Graig Nettles
10 Matt Williams

I have often been critical of Brooks Robinson's lofty status among third basemen, mainly because, IMO, he took attention away from Mathews, who is, IMO, the most underrated superstar of all time. However, the sheer length of his career, his MVP award, and the fact that he was a regular on a team that finished 2nd, despite hitting only .201 is consistent with the highest level of defensive skills. Therefore, I will stop referring to him as Brooks, the Overrated; that distinction needs to remain Nolan Ryan's and Nolan Ryan's alone.

Killebrew, Molitor, and Darrell Evans I rate as multi-position stars. Darrell Evans, as a 3B alone, doesn't crack this top 10. Nor does Chipper Jones, although if he returns to 3B he'll rocket into the top 5 real quick!

In looking at Santo's and Boyer's batting stats I found myself viewing Boyer as Santo's equal; slightly better, in fact. I view Boyer as big a HOF injustice as Santo; Boyer won an MVP award, and I consider Boyer to have a slight edge on defense.

I believe that Matt Williams is the most underrated 3B in history. He was/is excellent on defense, and has played his entire career at 3B; he has not shifted off to an easier position. He is likely, IMO, to end up with over 400 HRs, despite playing in 3-COM park for so long. He has been hurt some, and he is not finishing his career strongly, due to injuries, but I still rate him over the Pie Traynors, Home Run Bakers, etc.

sweaver · 01-24-2003, 09:39 PM

I have Williams at #20.

01-24-2003, 10:07 PM

I'll bet that Joe Dimaggio would have made a strong case for Kenny Keltner..........

Fuzzy Bear · 01-25-2003, 10:07 AM

I would also wish to say that if this were ranking 3B according to peak value, AL ROSEN would be no lower than #4!

JamesI · 01-25-2003, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear
01 Eddie Mathews
02 Mike Schmidt
03 George Brett
04 Wade Boggs
05 Brooks Robinson
06 Ken Boyer
07 Ron Santo
08 Stan Hack
09 Graig Nettles
10 Matt Williams

I have often been critical of Brooks Robinson's lofty status among third basemen, mainly because, IMO, he took attention away from Mathews, who is, IMO, the most underrated superstar of all time. However, the sheer length of his career, his MVP award, and the fact that he was a regular on a team that finished 2nd, despite hitting only .201 is consistent with the highest level of defensive skills. Therefore, I will stop referring to him as Brooks, the Overrated; that distinction needs to remain Nolan Ryan's and Nolan Ryan's alone.

I knew you would eventually come around to my side on the Brooks issue

SmedIndy · 01-27-2003, 08:53 AM

Fuzz -

I see no way how you can discount Baker, and lump him into Pie Traynor.

Different eras, and Baker produced.

01-24-2003, 10:42 AM	#5
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	1 Mike Schmidt 2 George Brett 3 Eddie Mathews 4 Ron Santo 5 Home Run Baker 6 Wade Boggs 7 Ken Boyer 8 Brooks Robinson 9 Stan Hack 10 Jimmy Collins I am shocked at how little love HR Baker is getting. He played over 1500 games at 3B which isn't chopped liver. I know 3B is a little thin but to have 9 of the top to be from the age of TV is a bit much. I left Molitor off becuase he didn't even play 1000 games at 3B, but he is clearly better than several of the players on this list. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

01-24-2003, 10:07 PM	#12
bill wisnosky Posts: n/a	3B I'll bet that Joe Dimaggio would have made a strong case for Kenny Keltner..........

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01-23-2003, 08:16 PM	#1
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Third base? I don't know! How about these 10 guys? My picks for the top ten at third base. BTW, this is the thinnest position overall, except perhaps for catcher. At least catchers have an excuse for short career length. 10. Graig Nettles 9. Stan Hack 8. Darrell Evans 7. Brooks Robinson 6. Paul Molitor 5. Ron Santo 4. George Brett 3. Eddie Mathews 2. Wade Boggs 1. Mike Schmidt Home Run Baker? His two layoff years and subsequent short career hurt him. He ranks #11. He would be the oldest player on this list by a long shot.

01-23-2003, 08:23 PM	#2
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	I'm sure I'm being a here, but oh well. Can't be a homer since I've never lived in Baltimore. 10 Pie Traynor 9 Home Run Baker 8 Paul Molitor (I always think of him as a DH) 7 Ron Santo 6 Wade Boggs 5 Harmon Killebrew 4 Brooks Robinson 3 George Brett 2 Eddie Mathews 1 Mike Schmidt edited to add Killebrew, how did I forget him? Last edited by JamesI : 01-23-2003 at 08:36 PM.

01-23-2003, 08:26 PM	#3
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	Like second base, the top 4 is real close. 1. Mike Schmidt 2. Eddie Mathews 3. George Brett 4. Wade Boggs 5. Ron Santo 6. Harmon Killebrew (I think of him here) 7. Brooks Robinson 8. Stan Hack 9. Darrell Evans 10. Ken Boyer I VERY nearly considered Lave Cross of all people on this list at #10, he was his era's Brooksie. He might actually make the list if Killebrew isn't a 3B in my book. That's how weak this position is. (I think of Molly as a DH BTW)

01-23-2003, 10:17 PM	#4
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	Third base is a thin position, historically speaking. When I started following baseball in 1960, and for about a decade thereafter, most of the sportswriters, and all of the baseball books available at the time, pointed to Pie Traynor as the greatest 3B of all time, although my pick at that time would have been Jimmie Collins with Traynor or John McGraw second. Note that these are three names almost never mentioned at all anymore in any listing of all-time great 3Bs. If we tried to list an all-time top 25 it would be an impossible task with names like Frank Malzone, Clete Boyer, Joe Dugan and Don Hoak being about as good as anyone else you could name. If you want to consider Killebrew as a 3B, he is very difficult to assess. He would have to be considered the number one offensive force (he had more power than either Schmidt or Mathews) but defensively he was marginal, far better suited to play somewhere else. I chose to think of Killebrew as belonging elsewhere. I am perfectly open to considering Dave Kingman as a hot corner man since his play there wasn't much worse than his play at any other position ! My list : 01. Mike Schmidt 02. Wade Boggs 03. George Brett 04. Eddie Mathews 05. Ron Santo 06. Brooks Robinson 07. Jimmie Collins 08. Stan Hack 09. Ken Boyer 10. Craig Nettles __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

01-24-2003, 12:00 PM	#6
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Killebrew: 1B 969 games, 3B 791 games, LF 470 games. If I ranked him at third (I have him as a 1B) he would have been tenth, in place of Nettles. His main problem is an almost complete lack of defensive value. Molitor: DH 1174 games, 3B 791 games, 2B 400 games, 1B 197 games, SS 57 games, OF 50 games. Since I don't have a DH category, I rank Molly as a 3B. He did play the field more than DH, he just DH'd more than any position.

01-24-2003, 12:33 PM	#8
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Home Run Baker is a top 5er, SW. Me thinks you discount him too much. He was the key to the A's success.

01-24-2003, 03:04 PM	#9
WiredTiger Guest Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The city of Kaline, Cobb and Greenberg Posts: 3,395	10. Darrell Evans 9. Brooks Robinson 8. Paul Molitor 7. Ron Santo 6. Home Run Baker 5. Harmon killebrew 4. Wade Boggs 3. George Brett 2. Eddie Mathews 1. Mike Schmidt Schmidt, Matthews, Brett and Boggs are far ahead of the others. Mathews is a very underrated player. I guess the 80s and 90s were the golden era of the 3B.

01-24-2003, 03:31 PM	#10
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	01 Eddie Mathews 02 Mike Schmidt 03 George Brett 04 Wade Boggs 05 Brooks Robinson 06 Ken Boyer 07 Ron Santo 08 Stan Hack 09 Graig Nettles 10 Matt Williams I have often been critical of Brooks Robinson's lofty status among third basemen, mainly because, IMO, he took attention away from Mathews, who is, IMO, the most underrated superstar of all time. However, the sheer length of his career, his MVP award, and the fact that he was a regular on a team that finished 2nd, despite hitting only .201 is consistent with the highest level of defensive skills. Therefore, I will stop referring to him as Brooks, the Overrated; that distinction needs to remain Nolan Ryan's and Nolan Ryan's alone. Killebrew, Molitor, and Darrell Evans I rate as multi-position stars. Darrell Evans, as a 3B alone, doesn't crack this top 10. Nor does Chipper Jones, although if he returns to 3B he'll rocket into the top 5 real quick! In looking at Santo's and Boyer's batting stats I found myself viewing Boyer as Santo's equal; slightly better, in fact. I view Boyer as big a HOF injustice as Santo; Boyer won an MVP award, and I consider Boyer to have a slight edge on defense. I believe that Matt Williams is the most underrated 3B in history. He was/is excellent on defense, and has played his entire career at 3B; he has not shifted off to an easier position. He is likely, IMO, to end up with over 400 HRs, despite playing in 3-COM park for so long. He has been hurt some, and he is not finishing his career strongly, due to injuries, but I still rate him over the Pie Traynors, Home Run Bakers, etc.

01-24-2003, 09:39 PM	#11
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	I have Williams at #20.

01-25-2003, 10:07 AM	#13
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	I would also wish to say that if this were ranking 3B according to peak value, AL ROSEN would be no lower than #4!

01-27-2003, 08:53 AM	#15
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Fuzz - I see no way how you can discount Baker, and lump him into Pie Traynor. Different eras, and Baker produced.

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