Guys who have had big careers with the same team before and after the team moved

Fuzzy Bear · 01-22-2003, 06:37 PM

There are very, very few players that were big stars for a team playing in one city that were also big stars in the city that the team moved two.

Out of all the franchise relocations that have occurred, the only three players I can think of that had big careers in two cities with the same team were Willie Mays (NY and SF Giants), Henry Aaron (Milwaukee and Atlanta Braves), and Henry Aaron (Boston and Milwaukee Braves).

One thing that strikes me hard is that the Brooklyn Dodgers were not the Los Angeles Dodgers. The guys who were pennant winners in 1956 were either retired or diminished in the 1959 championship year. Not a single Brooklyn Dodger carried his stardom over from Brooklyn to Los Angeles, except (maybe) Snyder, and he was in decline. Drysdale and Koufax were nobody in Brooklyn, while Campy and Jackie were done come moving time. The two Dodgers who had good careers in both Brooklyn and L. A. were Jim Gilliam and Johnny Podres, in that they were about the same in both places.

Why is that? Why does a team lose all continuity when it moves, to the point where stars in mid-career fade after the move, and new players take their place?

It may be that teams move when they are down in the standings. But the 1957 Dodgers finished 3rd, and were one year removed from winning their second consecutive pennant, and two years removed from their first World Championship.

I can't think of a single Philadelphia Athletic who was anything in Kansas City. (Campaneris was the only established minor star who maintained the same level of play when K. C. moved to Oakland.) Who was a memorable Brown AND Oriole? Besides Mays, the S. F. Giants were a new crew quick; only John Antonelli did anything to speak of out west. Frank Howard, the Senator's biggest star, disintegrated upon arriving in Texas. Killebrew and Allison were stars in Washington, but played only two years there before moving to Minnesota.

These moves happened during the years of the reserve clause, so free agency can't be blamed.

Why the lack of continuity when a team moves from one city to another? Is it because the team doing the moving is likely to be in deep decline? Or is there just an impulse, logical or otherwise, to discard all of the old when a team moves, that is not necessarily locigal?

JamesI · 01-22-2003, 08:32 PM

Well, there weren't really any memorable Browns/Orioles since the Orioles traded away basically everyone in 1955.

WiredTiger · 01-23-2003, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear
Henry Aaron (Milwaukee and Atlanta Braves), and Henry Aaron (Boston and Milwaukee Braves).

You almost had me there for a second. I couldn't figure out when Henry Aaron played for the Boston Braves. I had to go look it up to make sure.

I think most team moves were made when the team was a little bit down and didn't have big time stars. The Dodgers just happened to be in transition when they moved.

KCBOOMER · 01-23-2003, 10:07 AM

I don't think Hank Aaron played for the Boston version of the Braves. Eddie Mathews only played one year for the Boston Braves so he isn't a good choice.

Maybe Warren Spahn might be the Boston/Milwaukee Brave of choice.

Craig S. · 01-23-2003, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KCBOOMER
I don't think Hank Aaron played for the Boston version of the Braves. Eddie Mathews only played one year for the Boston Braves so he isn't a good choice.

Maybe Warren Spahn might be the Boston/Milwaukee Brave of choice.

Definitely has to be Spahn. I'm guessing it was just a mistype by Fuzzy.

pwdennis · 01-23-2003, 10:18 AM

Harmon Killebrew was a big star with the Washington Senators (the AL home run champ in 1959) and remained a big star when they moved to Minnesota in 1961

Fuzzy Bear · 01-24-2003, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig S.
Definitely has to be Spahn. I'm guessing it was just a mistype by Fuzzy.

Yes, it was a mistype; Spahn played for the Boston and Milwaukee Braves.

01-22-2003, 06:37 PM	#1
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	Guys who have had big careers with the same team before and after the team moved There are very, very few players that were big stars for a team playing in one city that were also big stars in the city that the team moved two. Out of all the franchise relocations that have occurred, the only three players I can think of that had big careers in two cities with the same team were Willie Mays (NY and SF Giants), Henry Aaron (Milwaukee and Atlanta Braves), and Henry Aaron (Boston and Milwaukee Braves). One thing that strikes me hard is that the Brooklyn Dodgers were not the Los Angeles Dodgers. The guys who were pennant winners in 1956 were either retired or diminished in the 1959 championship year. Not a single Brooklyn Dodger carried his stardom over from Brooklyn to Los Angeles, except (maybe) Snyder, and he was in decline. Drysdale and Koufax were nobody in Brooklyn, while Campy and Jackie were done come moving time. The two Dodgers who had good careers in both Brooklyn and L. A. were Jim Gilliam and Johnny Podres, in that they were about the same in both places. Why is that? Why does a team lose all continuity when it moves, to the point where stars in mid-career fade after the move, and new players take their place? It may be that teams move when they are down in the standings. But the 1957 Dodgers finished 3rd, and were one year removed from winning their second consecutive pennant, and two years removed from their first World Championship. I can't think of a single Philadelphia Athletic who was anything in Kansas City. (Campaneris was the only established minor star who maintained the same level of play when K. C. moved to Oakland.) Who was a memorable Brown AND Oriole? Besides Mays, the S. F. Giants were a new crew quick; only John Antonelli did anything to speak of out west. Frank Howard, the Senator's biggest star, disintegrated upon arriving in Texas. Killebrew and Allison were stars in Washington, but played only two years there before moving to Minnesota. These moves happened during the years of the reserve clause, so free agency can't be blamed. Why the lack of continuity when a team moves from one city to another? Is it because the team doing the moving is likely to be in deep decline? Or is there just an impulse, logical or otherwise, to discard all of the old when a team moves, that is not necessarily locigal?

01-23-2003, 10:07 AM	#4
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	I don't think Hank Aaron played for the Boston version of the Braves. Eddie Mathews only played one year for the Boston Braves so he isn't a good choice. Maybe Warren Spahn might be the Boston/Milwaukee Brave of choice. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

01-23-2003, 10:18 AM	#6
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	Harmon Killebrew was a big star with the Washington Senators (the AL home run champ in 1959) and remained a big star when they moved to Minnesota in 1961 __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

01-22-2003, 08:32 PM	#2
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	Well, there weren't really any memorable Browns/Orioles since the Orioles traded away basically everyone in 1955.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)