History on back to back nights

[BuzzBuzzard]

Lenny Harris just tied Manny Mota's career pH mark. I didn't want anyone to lose sight of that.

[NetShrine]

I grew up hearing that Manny Mota was the number one PH of all-time; so, it stuck in my head. Regardless of Harris, I'll probably still think "Mota" when asked "Great PH?" Shoot, I will think Ken Phelps and Dave Hansen and Cliff Johnson before Harris.

Why is that?

Will today's kids think Harris - they way I did Mota?

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by NetShrine
Will today's kids think Harris - they way I did Mota?

It would only be fair for them to do so, no?

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
It would only be fair for them to do so, no?

Wasn't even thinking about fair - - just if they would think of him period or not? Maybe PHing just got more attention 25 years ago?

[BuzzBuzzard]

Until Lenny got close, I could not have told you who held the record. Only the most devoted future fans baseball fans will know either Harris or Mota.

[NetShrine]

Saw Harris broke the record yesterday and he was mobbed by teammates at 1B. Was that right?

In the old days, it would have been a message on the scoreboard, a standing O, and a tip of the cap - - that's it. No need to stop the game for an on the field celebration - - at least not for just the "pinch hitting" record.

Maybe I'm nuts, but, the carreer PH record is not up there with the single season or career HR record, or the record for most runs scored in a career, etc.

Come to think of it, unless I'm remembering wrong, they (teammates) never even went on the field if a player got 3000 hits or 500 HRs, no?

What's next? Getting mobbed by teammates at 1B when you break the career HBP record? How about most career "reached on catcher's interference?"

The career PH record - just by the fact that most fans are not even aware of who held/holds it, and the fact that the players on the top of the list are not great players - should not be that big of a deal to warrant the team leaving the dugout and running on the field.

OK, Buzz, this is the point where you reply with something along the lines of "If it was a Yankee........" or "A Met owns the record, get over it."

Really, are the Mets going to retire Harris' number now for setting this wonderful record?

[BuzzBuzzard]

No, Lenny's number will not be retired, but I had no problem with the Mets celebration last night. A record was set and should be celebrated. Not a Mets issue. Not a Yankee issue. A record was set, period. Lighten up Francis.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
Lighten up Francis.

You touch my stuff, and I'll kill you. And if any of youse hom..........no, I'm not going there.

So, Buzz, you're OK with the "mob on" for any career record?

Agreed, the catcher's interference thing was a reach - - but, how about career SF or SAC? Those two acts - - sac flies and sac bunts are more in line with the task pinch hitting.

Ruben Sierra is the last active player closest to Eddie Murray's record for career SF. If he reaches it, should the game be stopped and all the Rangers pile onto the field to give him hugs on the fateful flyout?

Pull-ease. Mets overracted, IMHO.

[BuzzBuzzard]

I think there should be a line somewhere, although I can't tell you where it is. Do I think the SF record would be sorth celebrating? No, not really. But the PH record, since it is such a specialty (something you AL fans will never appreciate because of that phony baloney baseball you play) I have no issue with what happened at Shea last night.

[NetShrine]

What is a Pinch Hitter "specialist" other than a DH who only gets one AB per game?

[BuzzBuzzard]

There is a huge difference and you know it.

[Duque]

C'mon, Net, the Mets don't have much to cheer about right now - give them this. How long did Mota's record stand, anyways?

How much was this impacted by the managers Harris played for. There are some managers (Joe Torre, for one) that are loathe to pinch-hit, and some (Tony LaRussa) that are pinch-hit happy.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
There is a huge difference and you know it.

I can see you've never DHed. I have - - and, it is like PHing several times a game. Ask any NL player that comes to the AL and is a DH. They all say the same thing "It's like pinch hitting four times a game."

In fact, I offer that to all the "purists" who don't like the DH and say "pitchers should hit" - - FINE, then pitchers should ALWAYS hit and you can never pinch hit for them. Hmm, you wouldn't like that.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by Duque
the Mets don't have much to cheer about right now

I think that was part of it - - plus the NY hype thing. I know this for a fact, if it was Denny Hocking breaking the record for MLB career PHs in Minny, no way would there be "stop the presses" attention to it.

Duque - it was a 21 year old record.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by NetShrine


I can see you've never DHed. I have - - and, it is like PHing several times a game. Ask any NL player that comes to the AL and is a DH. They all say the same thing "It's like pinch hitting four times a game."

In fact, I offer that to all the "purists" who don't like the DH and say "pitchers should hit" - - FINE, then pitchers should ALWAYS hit and you can never pinch hit for them. Hmm, you wouldn't like that.

The role a PH plays if far different than a DH. How many high average, high OBP DHs are there? Not many. Most are more typically the HR/K types. A PH has a specialty one a game and not every game. DH role is every day, 4 ABs per game. PH is situational. DH is not. Huge differences.

I wouldn't like any player being forced to hit in every AB. That is the beauty of the PH and the extra strategy deployed in the NL as opposed to the thoughtless brand of baseball in the AL.