Aaron or Mays

[timconnelly]

I began following baseball in 1964 and at that time, there didn't seem to be any doubt in anybody's mind that Mays was a greater player than Aaron.

Do you think that was caused by Willie's starting off in NY and getting so much attention from the NY press?

Do you think being a few years older and having monster seasons in 1954 and 1955 created an impression that never got reviewed until Aaron began chasing Ruth?

Do you think it was caused by his flashier style of play?

Do you think Mays was better during his prime and that Aaron was greater during his career?

Does it make any difference that Mays lost nearly 2 seasons to military service in evaluating his career?

Who would you choose for your team if you were going to be playing baseball for only the next 4 years and you could have either man in his prime?

Would you stick with your choice if you were going to be looking at the next 22 seasons?

[Skipper Steve]

Tim - on the Biggio avatar choice!

I would go with Mays over Hank - - better defense and better peak seasons.

[timconnelly]

I would have to go with Aaron on all counts. I think the view of Aaron as a REALLY great player was killed by 755; he only gets compared to Ruth and always gets beat up in that comparison.

Although, I agree that Mays was better defensively, Aaron was VERY good. I think the value of a great defensive outfielder like Mays is fairly unsubstantial compared to a fine defensive outfielder like Aaron. There will be plays that Mays will make that Aaron won't but over the course of several seasons, I'm not sure it adds up to more than a few runs.

Aaron won 3 Gold Gloves which is pretty impressive. Of course, Mays won 12 which is awesome!

More later

[Skipper Steve]

Mays had a higher OWP (.735 - .722) and a higher RC/G (7.98 - 7.55) than Aaron. That, plus the D, was the reason for me.

[nyy26wc]

Some other comparisions--

RCAA--Aaron, 1043-1020
RCAP--Mays, 868-866
RC--Aaron, 2556-2380
OPS--Mays, .941-.928
OPS above the league average--Mays, .210-.201

It's a tough call and I would gladly take either player on my team, but I have to go with Aaron.

[Skipper Steve]

Good stats Lee - but, all hitting stats. TOTAL BASEBALL gives Mays a TPR of 95.9 (which is #2 all-time) whereas Aaron's TPR is 89.1 (#7 all-time). Again, for me, it's the D. We cannot overlook the difference in their gloves. No knock on Hank - just that Willie was a superior defender.

[nyy26wc]

We don't know whether Mays was really the "superior" fielder because he actually was a better fielder or whether it was because he was just the flashier fielder.

You can take just about any quote about DiMaggio, about how he was the perfect player, both offensive and fieldingwise, about how easily he made everything look, about how he never had to make the flashy play because he was good enough to make it look routine--I've seen the same quote with Aaron's name in it.

[Skipper Steve]

If Hank was as good, would he not also have been a CFer?

[TGwynn19]

I will agree that both were respected outfielders. Having said that...Willie played a much more important position..so the nod goes to Willie on defense...and I honestly think that they are equals on offense..so my vote goes to Willie

[timconnelly]

Mays went over 40 home runs 6 times, Aaron 8 times.
Mays went over 30 home runs 11 times, Aaron 16 times.
I think because Mays had the 2 seasons of 50 there is the sense of being better.

Mays drove in 120 plus runs 3 times, Aaron 7.
Mays was actually a better run scorer than RBI man. Part of that was probably that he was a terrific base runner but he never led the league in RBI even though he didn't walk terribly much. Aaron led the NL 4 different years.

Mays batted over .320 3 times, Aaron 7 times

In the triple crown categories Mays won 1 batting title, Aaron 2.
Mays won 4 home run titles as did Aaron.
And Aaron won the 4 RBI titles.

I think it can be argued that Aaron hit better under pressure. Now don't get me wrong: I believe that clutch hitting is largely a matter of getting your pitch, having enough opportunities, and being "hot" at the right time. But in 25 post season games, Mays only hit 1 home run and drove in only 10. His post season slugging average is an anemic .337.

Aaron batted .362 and slugged .710 in 17 post season games. He drove in 16 runs and hit 6 homers. And while he was under the most intense sustained pressure of any professional athlete, with the exception of Jackie Robinson, Aaron actually picked up his home run pace!

From 1955 to 1973 Aaron was in the top 5 in one of the Triple Crown stats EVERY season!

For their careers, Aaron hit 95 more home runs and drove in 394 more runs. So I don't think Mays was anywhere near the hitter that Aaron was for career value.

[Skipper Steve]

Originally posted by timconnelly
For their careers, Aaron hit 95 more home runs and drove in 394 more runs. So I don't think Mays was anywhere near the hitter that Aaron was for career value.

How about HR/AB and RBI/G as opposed to career totals?

[nyy26wc]

Originally posted by Skipper Steve
If Hank was as good, would he not also have been a CFer?

Not necessarily. I can think of at least 2 reasons why a superior OF could be placed in RF instead of CF--

1) To take advantage of a throwing arm.

2) It's not relevant today, but considering when in history they broke into the majors, Aaron's skin color could be relevant.

A CF is considered to be the leader of the OF. It is possible that the Braves were less tolerant of the idea that a black man could be a leader than the Giants were.

I'm not saying this is the answer. But, the issue is there.

[nyy26wc]

Originally posted by Skipper Steve


How about HR/AB and RBI/G as opposed to career totals?

Players don't use up opportunities by using up plate appearances, but instead use up the team's scoring opportunities by using up outs. In other words, a team is giving a finite number of outs, but never a finite number of plate apperances.

Per 100 outs, Aaron hit 8.26 HR and had 25.14 RBI.

Mays hit 8.19 HR and had 23.62 RBI.

[Skipper Steve]

Originally posted by nyy26wc
It's not relevant today, but considering when in history they broke into the majors, Aaron's skin color could be relevant.

A CF is considered to be the leader of the OF. It is possible that the Braves were less tolerant of the idea that a black man could be a leader than the Giants were.

I'm not saying this is the answer. But, the issue is there.

It's not the answer. Felipe Alou played CF for a good period that Hank was in RF.

Also Hank played 1B from 1971 to 1972 and moved to LF in 1973 and 1974. Mays was always a CF. Bottom line, Hank was not the OF Mays was.

[timconnelly]

I think the main reason Aaron did not play center field was because the Braves had a speedy centerfielder by the name of Billy Bruton. Bruton led the NL in stolen bases in 53, 54, and 55.

Lee, I just checked because I noticed that Bruton made his major league debut at age 27: Yes, he played in the Negro Leagues before joining the Braves so I think we can safely dismiss the skin color question!!