The Greatest Leadoff Hitters - Page 2

Ytown Tribe fan · 01-14-2003, 07:41 PM

One boneheaded way of looking at it (sadly, the only way I know how) is this: How many times did he score compared to the number of times he was on base?

If you look at it that way only, Billy Hamilton is Number One with a bullet. Sliding Billy scored 49.2% of the times he was on base. No one else is really close. The other guys who are high up on the list are mainly great number-3 or 4 hitters, like Anson (45.0%), Gehrig (44.2%), Ruth (43.7%) and Mays (43.0%).

Rickey is up there at 43.0%.

Of the top twenty run scorers of all time, Rose is at the bottom of the list, scoring 36.5% of the time he reached base.

Others include Biggio (40.4%), Larkin (39.7%) and Raines (39.5%).

There are too many caveats to count about this simple calculation; but it is ONE indicator of how effective a runner is at scoring.

Fuzzy Bear · 01-14-2003, 07:48 PM

Don't forget Wee Willie Keeler. He was on base 3,742 times and scored 1,719 runs. This puts him at just under 45%, if my pencil and paper calculations are correct.

pwdennis · 01-14-2003, 10:03 PM

% of times on base scored is a bit bogus since that presupposes efficient hitters hitting behiond you. Some years back, while the "human rain delay" was still an active player, the Indians had a team that produced lots of base runners but very few runs, since no one ever seemed to knock them in.

Also look at how poorly Bonds fared last year in the run scoring department relative to times on base

SmedIndy · 01-15-2003, 11:45 AM

Sliding Billy!

sweaver · 01-15-2003, 11:59 AM

Revision:
1. Rickey
2. Tim Raines
3. Billy Hamilton
4. Pete Rose
5. Paul Molitor
6. Willie Keeler
7. Lou Brock
8. Richie Ashburn
9. Craig Biggio
10. Brett Butler

Part of what I am getting at here, is how does Butler fare on this list? I am starting with him tenth.

Golden Bear · 01-15-2003, 03:04 PM

I can buy that list.

So, what we're saying is that, in a very narrow definition of leadoff hitters -- defense irrelevant, 90% of prime spent batting leadoff -- Butler comes in 10th all time.

Interesting. More evidence that Butler is a gray area HOF.

01-14-2003, 07:41 PM	#16
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	R/TOB One boneheaded way of looking at it (sadly, the only way I know how) is this: How many times did he score compared to the number of times he was on base? If you look at it that way only, Billy Hamilton is Number One with a bullet. Sliding Billy scored 49.2% of the times he was on base. No one else is really close. The other guys who are high up on the list are mainly great number-3 or 4 hitters, like Anson (45.0%), Gehrig (44.2%), Ruth (43.7%) and Mays (43.0%). Rickey is up there at 43.0%. Of the top twenty run scorers of all time, Rose is at the bottom of the list, scoring 36.5% of the time he reached base. Others include Biggio (40.4%), Larkin (39.7%) and Raines (39.5%). There are too many caveats to count about this simple calculation; but it is ONE indicator of how effective a runner is at scoring.

01-14-2003, 10:03 PM	#18
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	% of times on base scored is a bit bogus since that presupposes efficient hitters hitting behiond you. Some years back, while the "human rain delay" was still an active player, the Indians had a team that produced lots of base runners but very few runs, since no one ever seemed to knock them in. Also look at how poorly Bonds fared last year in the run scoring department relative to times on base __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

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01-14-2003, 07:48 PM	#17
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	Don't forget Wee Willie Keeler. He was on base 3,742 times and scored 1,719 runs. This puts him at just under 45%, if my pencil and paper calculations are correct.

01-15-2003, 11:45 AM	#19
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Sliding Billy!

01-15-2003, 11:59 AM	#20
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Revision: 1. Rickey 2. Tim Raines 3. Billy Hamilton 4. Pete Rose 5. Paul Molitor 6. Willie Keeler 7. Lou Brock 8. Richie Ashburn 9. Craig Biggio 10. Brett Butler Part of what I am getting at here, is how does Butler fare on this list? I am starting with him tenth.

01-15-2003, 03:04 PM	#21
Golden Bear NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,100	I can buy that list. So, what we're saying is that, in a very narrow definition of leadoff hitters -- defense irrelevant, 90% of prime spent batting leadoff -- Butler comes in 10th all time. Interesting. More evidence that Butler is a gray area HOF.

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