This year's VC ballot [merged threads]

sweaver · 12-12-2002, 03:14 PM

AP has the story with the nominees for the Veteran's Committee ballot. Here is a link to the ESPN story: http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1212/1475894.html
And here is the list of nominees:
The complete veterans committee ballot:

Players: Dick Allen, Bobby Bonds, Ken Boyer, Rocky Colavito, Wes Ferrell, Curt Flood, Joe Gordon, Gil Hodges, Elston Howard, Ted Kluszewski, Mickey Lolich, Marty Marion, Roger Maris, Mike Marshall, Carl Mays, Bob Meusel, Minnie Minoso, Thurman Munson, Don Newcombe, Tony Oliva, Vada Pinson, Allie Reynolds, Ron Santo, Joe Torre, Ken Williams, Maury Wills.

Managers, umpires and executives: Buzzie Bavasi, August Busch Jr., Harry Dalton, Charles O. Finley, Doug Harvey, Whitey Herzog, Bowie Kuhn, Walter O'Malley, Billy Martin, Marvin Miller, Gabe Paul, Paul Richards, Bill White, Dick Williams, Phil Wrigley.

The VC can vote for up to 10 from each list.

Who would you vote for?

WiredTiger · 12-12-2002, 04:45 PM

Minnie Minoso, Ron Santo and maybe Dick Allen.

Marvin Miller.

JamesI · 12-12-2002, 04:57 PM

Players: Tony Oliva, Vada Pinson, Ron Santo, Joe Torre,

Managers, umpires and executives: Whitey Herzog, Billy Martin

Golden Bear · 12-12-2002, 05:02 PM

Non-players:

Miller is one of the most important men in the history of the sport.

Harvey is the most deserving umpire not admitted, and better than many who are already in.

Managers: Herzog, Martin, and Williams are all obviously worthy. How the blazes did Paul Richards make this list over Mauch?

Bowie Kuhn strikes me as someone who should NOT be a HOF. I can't articulate why, exactly, other than his tenure as commissioner, while long, was far from successful.

Bavasi & Paul I remember as being exceptional executives, but I'd need to research them further before I made a judgement yea or nay.

HOF owners should be either beloved or really influential. Busch was beloved, Finley was influential, and O'Malley (outside of Brooklyn) was both. I'd take them.

Finally, I'll take Bill White for his overall service as a player, broadcaster, and NL president. This is a bit of a sentimental pick, as I remember listening to White and Scooter Rizzuto broadcast the Yankee games growing up -- they were fun. But he was a near-HOF as a player, as a broadcaster, and as an executive; seems to me that if you add them all up, he belongs.

Maybe I'm missing something about Wrigley, but I don't remember him being a very important owner. Other than lending his name to a ballpark, I'm not sure why he made the cut.

I can't remember anything about Harry Dalton.

So, my non-player picks:

Busch
Finley
Harvey
Herzog
O'Malley
Martin
Miller
Williams
White

Maybes: Bavasi, Paul.

If I found that both Bavasi and Paul were clear cut cases, I'd probably bump Augie Busch from my ballot to make room.

Golden Bear · 12-12-2002, 05:13 PM

Players:

Ron Santo
Minnie Minoso
Ken Boyer
Joe Gordon
Thurman Munson
Joe Torre
Gil Hodges
Mickey Lolich
Tony Oliva
Vada Pinson

KCBOOMER · 12-12-2002, 05:30 PM

I am pretty hard line on this: I do not want any managers, executives, GM's, pioneers, overall contributors to the game, etc, in the HoF.

As for the veterans players: Santo and Gordon.

sweaver · 12-12-2002, 05:31 PM

My votes would go to: Santo and Torre among players. You could make a decent argument for pretty much anyone on the list, (except Kenny Williams, IMO) but those are the two I think are clear-cut Hall guys. Pinson would be my possible third choice, and I would take Hodges for overall service, including his managing.

On the second list, I'd take Harvey, Herzog, Miller and Williams. Probably White as well.

LeGrandOrange · 12-12-2002, 09:09 PM

My full VC Ballot:

1. Minnie Minoso (first to attone for all the times I missed him!)
2. Ron Santo
3. Dick Allen
4. Joe Torre
5. Joe Gordon
6. Gil Hodges
7. Vada Pinson
8. Tony Oliva
9. Rocky Colavito
10. Wes Ferrell

I'll only vote 5 for the executives since you don't need 10:

1. Marvin Miller
2. Gussie Busch
3. Billy Martin
4. Doug Harvey
5. Bill White

SmedIndy · 12-12-2002, 09:39 PM

Santo and Minoso only as players. Maybe Boyer.

The cranky rabble rouser in me wants Charlie O. and Marvin Miller to go in together.

Perhaps Bill White.

Bowie Kuhn belongs in the HOF when they let in Dave Lemanczyk and Kurt Bevacqua.

Rinkster · 12-12-2002, 10:09 PM

Just looking at the players who made the next stage...

Some surprises are on there. There is no doubt in my mind that there are a couple of qualified candidates on the Veterans Committee list that would be near to, or among, the top half of players at their respective postions compared to players already in the Hall of Fame.

Here are the one's that clearly belong:

Vada Pinson
Minnie Minoso
Ron Santo
Ken Boyer
Joe Gordon
Tony Oliva

pwdennis · 12-13-2002, 12:09 AM

Players:
Tony Oliva
Vada Pinson
Ron Santo
Joe Gordon
Carl Mays
Wes Farrell
Orestes "Minnie" Minoso

with Minoso,Santo & Gordon being the top choices

Others:
Doug Harvey
Billy Martin

Skip · 12-13-2002, 07:10 AM

I've always supported Oliva, though I can recognize the case against. Other players I'd include on my ballot are Pinson, Santo, and maybe Minnie.

There's really not any player on the list that I think it would be a travesty to leave out though.

12-13-2002, 09:38 AM

Marvin Miller is the only one on that list I would vote for. I would imagine that Joe Torre will end up also being elected, and I don't think I'd be too opposed to that.

Craig S. · 12-13-2002, 09:56 AM

Here's my list:

Marvin Miller

I know it's a short list, but I just couldn't vote for any of the others. Almost all of them could have an argument made for their inclusion, but not enough to convince me.

WiredTiger · 12-13-2002, 09:57 AM

On second thought, maybe Joe Torre does deserve to get in. He has pretty good stats for someone who played a ton of games at 3b/c.

Maybe he will get in base on his playing stats combined with his managerial stats.

12-12-2002, 03:14 PM	#1
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	This year's VC ballot AP has the story with the nominees for the Veteran's Committee ballot. Here is a link to the ESPN story: http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1212/1475894.html And here is the list of nominees: The complete veterans committee ballot: Players: Dick Allen, Bobby Bonds, Ken Boyer, Rocky Colavito, Wes Ferrell, Curt Flood, Joe Gordon, Gil Hodges, Elston Howard, Ted Kluszewski, Mickey Lolich, Marty Marion, Roger Maris, Mike Marshall, Carl Mays, Bob Meusel, Minnie Minoso, Thurman Munson, Don Newcombe, Tony Oliva, Vada Pinson, Allie Reynolds, Ron Santo, Joe Torre, Ken Williams, Maury Wills. Managers, umpires and executives: Buzzie Bavasi, August Busch Jr., Harry Dalton, Charles O. Finley, Doug Harvey, Whitey Herzog, Bowie Kuhn, Walter O'Malley, Billy Martin, Marvin Miller, Gabe Paul, Paul Richards, Bill White, Dick Williams, Phil Wrigley. The VC can vote for up to 10 from each list. Who would you vote for?

12-12-2002, 05:30 PM	#6
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	I am pretty hard line on this: I do not want any managers, executives, GM's, pioneers, overall contributors to the game, etc, in the HoF. As for the veterans players: Santo and Gordon. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

12-12-2002, 05:31 PM	#7
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Re: This year's VC ballot My votes would go to: Santo and Torre among players. You could make a decent argument for pretty much anyone on the list, (except Kenny Williams, IMO) but those are the two I think are clear-cut Hall guys. Pinson would be my possible third choice, and I would take Hodges for overall service, including his managing. On the second list, I'd take Harvey, Herzog, Miller and Williams. Probably White as well.

12-12-2002, 10:09 PM	#10
Rinkster NetShrine Fan Favorite Join Date: May 2002 Location: Lawrence, KS Posts: 78	Just looking at the players who made the next stage... Some surprises are on there. There is no doubt in my mind that there are a couple of qualified candidates on the Veterans Committee list that would be near to, or among, the top half of players at their respective postions compared to players already in the Hall of Fame. Here are the one's that clearly belong: Vada Pinson Minnie Minoso Ron Santo Ken Boyer Joe Gordon Tony Oliva __________________ I live in the same town as Bill James and ESPN's John Sickels...wondering if they are hermits

12-13-2002, 12:09 AM	#11
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	Players: Tony Oliva Vada Pinson Ron Santo Joe Gordon Carl Mays Wes Farrell Orestes "Minnie" Minoso with Minoso,Santo & Gordon being the top choices Others: Doug Harvey Billy Martin __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

12-12-2002, 04:45 PM	#2
WiredTiger Guest Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The city of Kaline, Cobb and Greenberg Posts: 3,395	Minnie Minoso, Ron Santo and maybe Dick Allen. Marvin Miller.

12-12-2002, 04:57 PM	#3
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	Players: Tony Oliva, Vada Pinson, Ron Santo, Joe Torre, Managers, umpires and executives: Whitey Herzog, Billy Martin

12-12-2002, 05:02 PM	#4
Golden Bear NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,100	Non-players: Miller is one of the most important men in the history of the sport. Harvey is the most deserving umpire not admitted, and better than many who are already in. Managers: Herzog, Martin, and Williams are all obviously worthy. How the blazes did Paul Richards make this list over Mauch? Bowie Kuhn strikes me as someone who should NOT be a HOF. I can't articulate why, exactly, other than his tenure as commissioner, while long, was far from successful. Bavasi & Paul I remember as being exceptional executives, but I'd need to research them further before I made a judgement yea or nay. HOF owners should be either beloved or really influential. Busch was beloved, Finley was influential, and O'Malley (outside of Brooklyn) was both. I'd take them. Finally, I'll take Bill White for his overall service as a player, broadcaster, and NL president. This is a bit of a sentimental pick, as I remember listening to White and Scooter Rizzuto broadcast the Yankee games growing up -- they were fun. But he was a near-HOF as a player, as a broadcaster, and as an executive; seems to me that if you add them all up, he belongs. Maybe I'm missing something about Wrigley, but I don't remember him being a very important owner. Other than lending his name to a ballpark, I'm not sure why he made the cut. I can't remember anything about Harry Dalton. So, my non-player picks: Busch Finley Harvey Herzog O'Malley Martin Miller Williams White Maybes: Bavasi, Paul. If I found that both Bavasi and Paul were clear cut cases, I'd probably bump Augie Busch from my ballot to make room.

12-12-2002, 05:13 PM	#5
Golden Bear NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,100	Players: Ron Santo Minnie Minoso Ken Boyer Joe Gordon Thurman Munson Joe Torre Gil Hodges Mickey Lolich Tony Oliva Vada Pinson

12-12-2002, 09:09 PM	#8
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	My full VC Ballot: 1. Minnie Minoso (first to attone for all the times I missed him!) 2. Ron Santo 3. Dick Allen 4. Joe Torre 5. Joe Gordon 6. Gil Hodges 7. Vada Pinson 8. Tony Oliva 9. Rocky Colavito 10. Wes Ferrell I'll only vote 5 for the executives since you don't need 10: 1. Marvin Miller 2. Gussie Busch 3. Billy Martin 4. Doug Harvey 5. Bill White

12-12-2002, 09:39 PM	#9
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Santo and Minoso only as players. Maybe Boyer. The cranky rabble rouser in me wants Charlie O. and Marvin Miller to go in together. Perhaps Bill White. Bowie Kuhn belongs in the HOF when they let in Dave Lemanczyk and Kurt Bevacqua.

12-13-2002, 07:10 AM	#12
Skip NetShrine Vagabond Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisville Posts: 7,866	I've always supported Oliva, though I can recognize the case against. Other players I'd include on my ballot are Pinson, Santo, and maybe Minnie. There's really not any player on the list that I think it would be a travesty to leave out though.

12-13-2002, 09:38 AM	#13
digger Posts: n/a	Marvin Miller is the only one on that list I would vote for. I would imagine that Joe Torre will end up also being elected, and I don't think I'd be too opposed to that.

12-13-2002, 09:56 AM	#14
Craig S. Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,330	Here's my list: Marvin Miller I know it's a short list, but I just couldn't vote for any of the others. Almost all of them could have an argument made for their inclusion, but not enough to convince me.

12-13-2002, 09:57 AM	#15
WiredTiger Guest Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The city of Kaline, Cobb and Greenberg Posts: 3,395	On second thought, maybe Joe Torre does deserve to get in. He has pretty good stats for someone who played a ton of games at 3b/c. Maybe he will get in base on his playing stats combined with his managerial stats.

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