![]() |
|
|
#1 |
|
Netshrine Cleanup Hitter
|
Not a great book, but certainly a good one. James takes his theme of a box to determine and relate the tendencies of baseball managers, whether they tend to platoon, or bunt, or stay with their starting pitchers, with the decade-by-decade approach of the Historical Baseball Abstract.
The result is the most extensive examination of managers available. Most of the book is taken up with "decade snapashots," from the 1870s to the 1980s. Within each, James has such categories like "Most Successful Managers," "Typical Manager Was," and "Most Second-Guessed Manager's Move," to give us a flavor of the time. One or two of the managers of the decade also gets "So-and-so in a box," asking questions about him, from Harry Wright to John McGraw to Sparky Anderson. Each also includes the little tidbits of history that James frequently presents. There are also some essays on other subjects, such as lineup selection, and just who are the best managers ever? James also spends some time constructing a set of data that would give a good idea of a manager, when printed in a statistical guide. This book is not as good as some of James' work, perhaps owing to the limiting nature of the subject matter. But it is the best work on the subject, and as always is very entertaining and thought-provoking. |
|
|
|
|
#2 |
|
NetShrine Creator & Curator
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NetShrine WHQ
Posts: 5,548
|
I agree with sweaver's take above.
__________________
Steve, Forum Administrator "They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go." That's why there's NetShrine.com |
|
|
|
|
#3 |
|
Having A NetShrine Cup Of Coffee
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 3
|
I managed to pick up a copy on ebay. The big question for me is why this book is out of print only 5 years after the first edition...
|
|
|
|
|
#4 |
|
Netshrine Cleanup Hitter
|
Again, I think it owes to the limitations of the subject matter. Plus, managers are simply not as thought-provoking as rating players or the Hall of Fame. Perhaps, if an update was produced, interest would pick up. Possibly John Sickels, the assistant on the book, will return to it at some point.
|
|
|
|
|
#5 |
|
NetShrine All-Century Team
|
I haven't read the book since I bought it shortly after it came out, but I definitely enjoyed reading it, even though it probably isn't his best work.
__________________
I would have looked out for the water main. But that's just me.....Brett Favre |
|
|
|
|
#6 |
|
NetShrine's Historian
|
I was shocked this didn't get the run other James books did.
|
|
|
|
|
#7 |
|
NetShrine MVP
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 299
|
I enjoyed this one. It's kind of like a companion piece to part 1 of the Historical Abstracts.
|
|
|
|
|
#8 |
|
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Scrappers territory
Posts: 2,515
|
After the 2001 season, I did an update of sorts on the "managerial scores" of current managers. I didn't update it after the 2002 season, but I'm about to.
Tell you what -- Bobby Cox is Hall of Fame material already -- even with "just" one Ring. |
|
|
|
|
#9 |
|
Netshrine Cleanup Hitter
|
You are encouraged to share...
![]() |
|
|
|
|
#10 |
|
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Scrappers territory
Posts: 2,515
|
Three current managers have worked their way into the top 15: Bobby Cox, Tony LaRussa and Joe Torre.
A recap of the system: a manager earns one point for each season in which his team: A) has a winning record; B) wins the division; C) wins the league championship; D) wins the World Series; E) wins 100+ games; and F) finishes 20+ games over .500. Points are cumulative; a manager may earn as many as 6 points in a given season, as Torre did in 1998. Winning 100, but finishing second in your division (before the Wild Card) would earn you 3 points, and so on. The top twenty managers are listed below, with total points, (seasons managed), (average points per season), and "era markers" (see footnotes: 1. John McGraw 79 (33) (2.4) * (all but first 4 seasons) 2. Connie Mack 72 (53) (1.4) * (all but first 6 seasons) 3. Joe McCarthy 71 (24) (3.0) * 4. Casey Stengel 52 (25) (2.1) ** (last 4 seasons) 5. Walt Alston 51 (23) (2.2) * (first 8 seasons) *** (last 8 seasons) 5. Bobby Cox 51 (21) (2.4) *** (first 12 seasons) 7. Sparky Anderson 49 (26) (1.9) *** (all but last 2 seasons) 8. Earl Weaver 42 (17) (2.5) *** (all but first season) 8. Harry Wright 42 (23) (1.8) 10. Leo Durocher 38 (24) (1.6) * (first 16 seasons) ** (3 seasons) *** (last 4 seasons) 10. Bill McKechnie 38 (25) (1.5) * 10. Tony LaRussa 38 (24) (1.6) *** (first 15 seasons) 13. Miller Huggins 37 (17) (2.2) * 14. Frank Selee 36 (16) (2.3) * (last 2 seasons) 14. Joe Torre 36 (21) (1.7) *** (first 12 seasons) 16. Fred Clarke 35 (19) (1.8) * (all but first 7 seasons) 17. Cap Anson 34 (21) (1.6) 18. Tommy Lasorda 33 (21) (1.6) *** (all but last 3 seasons) 19. Al Lopez 32 (17) (1.9) * (first 10 seasons) ** (6 seasons) 20. Dick Williams 31 (21) (1.5) *** (all but first 2 seasons) 20. Ned Hanlon 31 (19) (1.6) * (last 4 seasons) Era markers denote changes in season length, and added divisions. No asterisk indicates seasons managed before 1904. *154 game schedule - AL 1904-60, NL 1904-61 **162 game schedule - AL 1961-68, NL 1962-68 ***2 Divisions - AL/NL 1969-1993 To quote James: "the modern manager, in this system, has both advantages and disadvantages compared to earlier eras. The modern manager can earn points for winning his division, but on the other hand, the number of teams competing for those "championship points" is greater now than it was then. The season is longer now, giving teams an advantage in the race for 100 wins -- but there is more competitive balance than there was through much of baseball history, so in fact there are not more teams winning 100 games a season, but fewer. My intention, in laying out the system, was to be fair to all managers." I would add that Joe Torre has a distinct advantage in that he has earned virtually ALL of his points with the Yanks in the last several seasons -- a result of the newer competitive imbalance. Harry Wright and Cap Anson had distinct disadvantages by playing before the advent of the World Series and with much shorter schedules. Last edited by Ytown Tribe fan : 04-17-2003 at 10:29 PM. |
|
|
|
|
#11 |
|
NetShrine MVP
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 299
|
One feature of this book was Bill James's profile of select managers. I would have liked to have seen a profile of Billy Martin, but these profiles were my favorite part of the book.
|
|
|
|
|
#12 | |
|
NetShrine All-Century Team
|
Quote:
I believe he did a profile of Martin in one his abstracts in about, just guessing, 1984 or so.....
__________________
I would have looked out for the water main. But that's just me.....Brett Favre |
|
|
|
|
|
#13 |
|
Netshrine Cleanup Hitter
|
The "Manager in a Box" system was indeed debuted in the 1984 Baseball Abstract, and included a Billy Martin box.
|
|
|
|
|
#14 |
|
NetShrine All-Century Team
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Home of the T-Bones
Posts: 11,116
|
I thought the book did a good job of showing that there is no magic formula for being a great manager other than having good horses.
__________________
KCBOOMER Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball |
|
|
|
|
#15 |
|
NetShrine MVP
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 299
|
Well, I have 85 through 88 now. I'm working on getting the first 3, slowly but surely. A couple of things that I remember about Martin was his use of a "front-loaded lineup," his overuse of his starters and his uncanny ability to not get along with his employers.
|
|
|
| Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
| Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
| Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|
Similar Threads
|
||||
| Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
| Historical Baseball Abstract | nyy26wc | Baseball Library | 55 | 05-26-2004 12:06 PM |
| Bill James Chat on ESPN | SmedIndy | 2003 Hot Baseball Chatter Archives | 32 | 09-19-2003 06:40 PM |
| 1982 Baseball Abstract | sweaver | Baseball Library | 14 | 05-10-2003 04:58 PM |
| An Observation on a Bill James Observation | Fuzzy Bear | 2003 Baseball History Archives | 7 | 01-24-2003 04:03 PM |
| Baseball in Asian countries | Yogi#8Fan | 2001 Hot Baseball Chatter Archives | 2 | 12-25-2001 03:13 PM |