Cubs' offseason: it's been broke for 94 years

gyb13 · 12-04-2002, 06:39 PM

Phil Rogers tackles this over at espn

Dusty Baker is the new manager. Miller, Bako, and Remlinger have been signed. The Hundley for Karros/Grudzielanek deal is not final yet, but should take place. Cubs' fans - what does your team need to do?

C Hundley, Girardi (FA), Miller*, Bako*
1B McGriff (FA)
2B Hill
SS Gonzalez
3B Bellhorn
LF Alou
CF Patterson
RF Sosa
IF Choi, DeShields, Ojeda, Orie, Stynes (FA)
OF Echevarria, Hermansen, Brown (sold to Japan)

SP Wood, Prior, Clement, Zambrano, Cruz, Bere (FA), Benes, Smyth, Lieber (FA)
RP Alfonseca, Remlinger*, Borowski, Farnsworth, Mahomes (FA), Sanchez (FA)

Alan Smithee · 12-05-2002, 04:02 AM

I think the interesting thing is that the cubs have a godo first basebam in choi. I dont understand why karros. and rumor iis that they are willing to move patterson and replace him with grissom.
either going to sign or ahve signed mike jackson.

THis team will never win untill they are realisitc about where they are. last year they tried to win a pennant they lacked the talent for and they are trying to do it again. ok if every one has a good year they might win 90 games and take the division but this is no way to build a team.

sweaver · 12-05-2002, 11:07 AM

If Grudz is a backup, and Karros platoons with Choi, the Cubs will reach .500 this year. If Karros and Grudz are everyday players, they will lose 90 again.

gyb13 · 12-05-2002, 11:37 AM

The final deal was Hundley/Hermanson for Karros/Grudzielanek, which makes them now look like this (removing FA's):

C Miller*, Bako*
1B Karros*
2B Hill
SS Gonzalez
3B Bellhorn
LF Alou
CF Patterson
RF Sosa
IF Choi, Grudzielanek*, DeShields, Ojeda, Orie
OF Echevarria

SP Wood, Prior, Clement, Zambrano, Cruz, Benes, Smyth
RP Alfonseca, Remlinger*, Borowski, Farnsworth

the team has potential, but they are no guarantee to contend yet, not with STL and HOU in the division

KCBOOMER · 12-05-2002, 01:03 PM

If 1) the Cubbies pitching really comes around, 2) Alou returns to form (iffy), and 3) Choi is the real deal and delivers at first they could be tough, but 2004 is a more likely target for them.

Of course, the Cubbies historically destroy young pitchers, good players rarely return to form in their mid-30's, and Baker's likely to give Karros too much playing time.

gyb13 · 12-05-2002, 01:31 PM

would this lineup scare you?

1 Hill
2 Patterson
3 Sosa
4 Alou
5 (Ivan Rodriguez)
6 Bellhorn
7 Choi
8 Gonzalez

not too shabby, right? now here's a lineup that might scare you, in a different sense:

1 Patterson
2 bill mueller-type 3b or delino deshields
3 Sosa
4 Alou
5 Karros
6 Gonzalez
7 Grudzielanek
8 Miller

mentos · 12-05-2002, 01:55 PM

gyb.

That first lineup is what I am thinking will be there, although switch Bellhorn and Patterson. Patterson hasnt shown he can be a good #2 hitter. Of course, Bellhorn isnt protypical in that spot, but his OB% is something the Cubs need in front of Sosa.

Now, what of the talk of Maddux returning?

Husier · 12-06-2002, 01:58 AM

I see the lineup this way ...

Hill, 2B
Bellhorn, 3B
Sosa, RF
Alou, LF
Choi/Karros, 1B
Miller, C
Patterson, CF
Gonzalez, SS

If Patterson gets his OBP to acceptable levels, put him 2nd, move Bellhorn to 5th or 6th and put Miller in the 7 hole ... anyone see Grudzielanek as Hill's backup and perhaps a platoon CF?

SmedIndy · 12-12-2002, 09:22 PM

If Karros bats 300 or more times, we're dooooomed...

I can see them signing I-Rod for a pittance of what his perceived value is. I-Rod thinks of himself as an "actual retail price" player - but he's slipped to Target and is another injury away from Wal-mart.

Grudz is a Sam's club player. Karros at Big Lots.

pwdennis · 12-13-2002, 12:18 AM

My crystal ball sees another mediocre season for the denizens of the friendly confines

sweaver · 12-14-2002, 09:38 AM

The Cubs 40-man, entering the Winter Meetings:
Pitchers (21)
Alfonseca, Antonio
Beltran, Francis
Benes, Alan
Borowski, Joe
Bruback, Matt
Chiasson, Scott
Clement, Matt
Cruz, Juan
Cunnane, Will
Duncan, Courtney
Farnsworth, Kyle
Leicester, Jon
Ohman, Will
Prior, Mark
Remlinger, Mike
Sanchez, Felix
Smyth, Steve
Webb, John
Wellemeyer, Todd
Wood, Kerry
Zambrano, Carlos

Catchers (3)
Bako, Paul
Mahoney, Mike
Miller, Damian

Infielders (10)
Bellhorn, Mark
Choi, Hee Seop
Frese, Nate
Gonzalez, Alex
Grudzielanek, Mark
Hill, Bobby
Karros, Eric
Kelton, David
Ojeda, Augie
Orie, Kevin

Outfielders (6)
Alou, Moises
Echevarria, Angel
Jackson, Nic
Melian, Jackson
Patterson, Corey
Sosa, Sammy

gyb13 · 12-18-2002, 04:35 PM

Echevarria has been sold to Japan

cubfan33 · 12-19-2002, 12:32 AM

I think Husier has the lineup dead on. I wish the Cubs could have grabbed Alfonzo and I think that not getting Ivan is a good move at the price he wants. I'd like to see one more pitcher but I can't imagine them grabbing one, unless there's a non-tender worth nabbing. I think Clemens would be a great fit at the right price. Put him and Wood together and ... wow.

WiredTiger · 12-19-2002, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cubfan33
I think Clemens would be a great fit at the right price. Put him and Wood together and ... wow.

That might be a good move for the Cubs. Bringing in Clemens would instantly change the attitude of the pitching staff and would allow the young Cub guys to mature. I think Clemens is looking for a team that has a better shot at a title this year.

Craig S. · 12-19-2002, 08:43 AM

Looking at their projected offensive lineup, I'm guessing that it will strike fear into the hearts of nobody. Signing another frontline pitcher would be a great move, and really their only chance at anything other than mediocrity.

12-04-2002, 06:39 PM	#1
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	Cubs' offseason: it's been broke for 94 years Phil Rogers tackles this over at espn Dusty Baker is the new manager. Miller, Bako, and Remlinger have been signed. The Hundley for Karros/Grudzielanek deal is not final yet, but should take place. Cubs' fans - what does your team need to do? C Hundley, Girardi (FA), Miller, Bako 1B McGriff (FA) 2B Hill SS Gonzalez 3B Bellhorn LF Alou CF Patterson RF Sosa IF Choi, DeShields, Ojeda, Orie, Stynes (FA) OF Echevarria, Hermansen, Brown (sold to Japan) SP Wood, Prior, Clement, Zambrano, Cruz, Bere (FA), Benes, Smyth, Lieber (FA) RP Alfonseca, Remlinger*, Borowski, Farnsworth, Mahomes (FA), Sanchez (FA) __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

12-05-2002, 11:37 AM	#4
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	The final deal was Hundley/Hermanson for Karros/Grudzielanek, which makes them now look like this (removing FA's): C Miller, Bako 1B Karros* 2B Hill SS Gonzalez 3B Bellhorn LF Alou CF Patterson RF Sosa IF Choi, Grudzielanek, DeShields, Ojeda, Orie OF Echevarria SP Wood, Prior, Clement, Zambrano, Cruz, Benes, Smyth RP Alfonseca, Remlinger, Borowski, Farnsworth the team has potential, but they are no guarantee to contend yet, not with STL and HOU in the division __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

12-05-2002, 01:03 PM	#5
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	If 1) the Cubbies pitching really comes around, 2) Alou returns to form (iffy), and 3) Choi is the real deal and delivers at first they could be tough, but 2004 is a more likely target for them. Of course, the Cubbies historically destroy young pitchers, good players rarely return to form in their mid-30's, and Baker's likely to give Karros too much playing time. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

12-05-2002, 01:31 PM	#6
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	would this lineup scare you? 1 Hill 2 Patterson 3 Sosa 4 Alou 5 (Ivan Rodriguez) 6 Bellhorn 7 Choi 8 Gonzalez not too shabby, right? now here's a lineup that might scare you, in a different sense: 1 Patterson 2 bill mueller-type 3b or delino deshields 3 Sosa 4 Alou 5 Karros 6 Gonzalez 7 Grudzielanek 8 Miller __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

12-13-2002, 12:18 AM	#10
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	My crystal ball sees another mediocre season for the denizens of the friendly confines __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

12-05-2002, 04:02 AM	#2
Alan Smithee Guest Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 152	I think the interesting thing is that the cubs have a godo first basebam in choi. I dont understand why karros. and rumor iis that they are willing to move patterson and replace him with grissom. either going to sign or ahve signed mike jackson. THis team will never win untill they are realisitc about where they are. last year they tried to win a pennant they lacked the talent for and they are trying to do it again. ok if every one has a good year they might win 90 games and take the division but this is no way to build a team.

12-05-2002, 11:07 AM	#3
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	If Grudz is a backup, and Karros platoons with Choi, the Cubs will reach .500 this year. If Karros and Grudz are everyday players, they will lose 90 again.

12-05-2002, 01:55 PM	#7
mentos NetShrine Rookie Of The Year Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 35	gyb. That first lineup is what I am thinking will be there, although switch Bellhorn and Patterson. Patterson hasnt shown he can be a good #2 hitter. Of course, Bellhorn isnt protypical in that spot, but his OB% is something the Cubs need in front of Sosa. Now, what of the talk of Maddux returning?

12-06-2002, 01:58 AM	#8
Husier NetShrine All-Star Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 112	I see the lineup this way ... Hill, 2B Bellhorn, 3B Sosa, RF Alou, LF Choi/Karros, 1B Miller, C Patterson, CF Gonzalez, SS If Patterson gets his OBP to acceptable levels, put him 2nd, move Bellhorn to 5th or 6th and put Miller in the 7 hole ... anyone see Grudzielanek as Hill's backup and perhaps a platoon CF?

12-12-2002, 09:22 PM	#9
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	If Karros bats 300 or more times, we're dooooomed... I can see them signing I-Rod for a pittance of what his perceived value is. I-Rod thinks of himself as an "actual retail price" player - but he's slipped to Target and is another injury away from Wal-mart. Grudz is a Sam's club player. Karros at Big Lots.

12-14-2002, 09:38 AM	#11
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	The Cubs 40-man, entering the Winter Meetings: Pitchers (21) Alfonseca, Antonio Beltran, Francis Benes, Alan Borowski, Joe Bruback, Matt Chiasson, Scott Clement, Matt Cruz, Juan Cunnane, Will Duncan, Courtney Farnsworth, Kyle Leicester, Jon Ohman, Will Prior, Mark Remlinger, Mike Sanchez, Felix Smyth, Steve Webb, John Wellemeyer, Todd Wood, Kerry Zambrano, Carlos Catchers (3) Bako, Paul Mahoney, Mike Miller, Damian Infielders (10) Bellhorn, Mark Choi, Hee Seop Frese, Nate Gonzalez, Alex Grudzielanek, Mark Hill, Bobby Karros, Eric Kelton, David Ojeda, Augie Orie, Kevin Outfielders (6) Alou, Moises Echevarria, Angel Jackson, Nic Melian, Jackson Patterson, Corey Sosa, Sammy

12-18-2002, 04:35 PM	#12
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	Echevarria has been sold to Japan __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

12-19-2002, 12:32 AM	#13
cubfan33 NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 1,359	Lineup I think Husier has the lineup dead on. I wish the Cubs could have grabbed Alfonzo and I think that not getting Ivan is a good move at the price he wants. I'd like to see one more pitcher but I can't imagine them grabbing one, unless there's a non-tender worth nabbing. I think Clemens would be a great fit at the right price. Put him and Wood together and ... wow. __________________ UTK available only at www.baseballprospectus.com "I was pulling for Pete and agreeing with (commissioner) Bud Selig that Pete should be eligible for the Hall of Fame," said Giles, now chairman of the Phillies. "Bud was close to making him eligible right after his meeting with Pete (November 2002). Right after that, Pete got into tax trouble (in California), and that delayed the process." - Phillies Chairman Bill Giles in the Dayton Daily News, January 25th, 2004.

12-19-2002, 08:43 AM	#15
Craig S. Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,330	Looking at their projected offensive lineup, I'm guessing that it will strike fear into the hearts of nobody. Signing another frontline pitcher would be a great move, and really their only chance at anything other than mediocrity.

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