Indians' offseason [Merged Threads]

gyb13 · 12-04-2002, 01:35 PM

Jim Thome has bolted. The team is amidst a massive restructuring, looking to be competitive in 04-05. The fans are pissed. What lies ahead?

C Diaz, Perez (FA), Bard, Martinez
1B Broussard
2B McDonald
SS Vizquel
3B Fryman
LF Garcia
CF Bradley
RF Lawton
DH Burks
IF Gutierrez, Snyder, Phillips, LaRocca, Selby
OF Stevens (FA), Magruder, Crisp, Escobar

SP Sabathia, Drese, Rodriguez, Westbrook, Phillips, Tallet, Nagy (FA), Wright (FA), Burba (FA)
RP Wickman (injured, out for 03), Baez, Wohlers, Mulholland (FA), Riske, Paronto, Riggan, Sadler

KCBOOMER · 12-04-2002, 01:51 PM

The fans need to get a grip. Nobody wins every year. Losing star players is what happens to mid-market and small market teams. Montreal has lost more great players than Cleveland by a wide margin. Show a little faith in a farm system that has been able to produce Belle-Thome-Ramirez in the last fourteen years plus others.

sweaver · 12-04-2002, 10:09 PM

Fryman has retired.

There is significant talent here, but it will probably take two years to gel into something. The Twins could be ripe for the picking by then.

mkempton · 12-04-2002, 11:18 PM

I'm thinking they'll start w/ something I can't even fathom, but here's hoping they don't sign anyone dumb in angst.

1B - Broussard
2B - Johnny Mac/Phillips
SS - The annoited one
3B - Phillips/Synder
C - Martinez (hopefully)/Bard/Diaz
LF - Burks/Lawton (will he be back in time?)
CF - Escobar/Bradley
RF - Garcia (is he signed?)
DH - Burks/Broussard

What do you guys think about Baez going back to the 'pen?

And does anyone have Jeff Manto's phone number? This time he could negotiate a major league salary and starting job.

gyb13 · 12-05-2002, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mkempton
What do you guys think about Baez going back to the 'pen?

he was an excellent reliever in 01 (for only 50 innings) and a league average starter in 02. the question is where does he have more value for the indians?

mkempton · 12-05-2002, 11:39 AM

I'd say the Indians have had better luck getting good relievers than league-average starters.

And gosh, it seemed like he was a lot better than average in '02. Shows me how bad everyone else around him was.

sweaver · 12-05-2002, 11:42 AM

Looking at the list, I'd say the Indians will need Baez to start. They might decide they need to use him as the designated-ninth-inning-pitcher.

mkempton · 12-05-2002, 11:53 AM

I thought they declared he would be the 9th-inning man months ago. I wasn't too impressed with the idea, but I'm not sure who their best reliever is with him not in there. Riske's kinda gone downhill in my eyes. He was the Chosen One in my eyes for a few years, but his consistancy scares me.

gyb13 · 12-05-2002, 12:10 PM

why does a team that is gonna contend for nothing need a closer?

mkempton · 12-05-2002, 01:17 PM

Okay, you win.

What ever became of Sean Depaula? I see he got rocked this year in 6.3 innings. He's not on the 40-man roster.

OaktownTribeFan · 12-05-2002, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mkempton
I'm thinking they'll start w/ something I can't even fathom, but here's hoping they don't sign anyone dumb in angst.

1B - Broussard
2B - Johnny Mac/Phillips
SS - The annointed one
3B - Phillips/Snyder

Phillips was trained at 2B in the AFL, so it's unlikely he'll move to 3rd next year. Snyder's the leading candidate right now, but they could use somebody from Akron or Buffalo if need be.

gyb13, there are a few pitchers who should be added to the list:

Billy Traber (LH) is going to get a real shot to be a SP. He went 4- 3 with a 3.29 ERA at Buffalo, and 17-5 for the year. He came over from the Mets in the Robbie Alomar trade.

Cliff Lee, another lefty who came over in the Colon trade, looked great in September. He was a combined 14-6 in the minors last year.

In the bullpen, there's Alex Herrera, who gave up no runs in 5.2 innings. Yet another lefty with a devastating fastball.

Although the pitching may be strong, this team is really weak at the plate. They'll be fighting Detroit & KC for 4th place. 2004 should see them on the way back, if they can pick up a nice FA like Chavez. And if all those highly touted rookie pitchers come through.

The GM, Mark Shapiro, intends to vie for Burba & Mulholland. Where's the need for spending big money on washed-up veterans, when the team's headed for 4th place anyway? Shapiro has made some smart moves in terms of minor league talent, but spending gobs of money on Lawton or Mulholland are questionable.

gyb13 · 12-05-2002, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mkempton
What ever became of Sean Depaula? I see he got rocked this year in 6.3 innings. He's not on the 40-man roster.

he got called up on Jul 20 and, after his poor performance, was demoted on Aug 10 when Wickman came off the DL. During the course of the year at AAA-Buffalo, he went 2-3 with a 3.95 ERA and 9 saves, giving up 55 hits and striking out 53 batters (while walking 18) in 57 innings. Considering he is 29 years old, they probably consider him a non-prospect and are not too worried about losing a guy with a major league career 6.75 ERA (even if it was just in 34.2 IP)

OaktownTribeFan · 12-05-2002, 01:57 PM

Regarding Baez, Shapiro's apparently hoping that two of the trio of Tallet, Lee and Traber work out next year, so he'll have at least 4 strong starters. If he has Sabathia, Tallet, Lee, Rodriguez, and Drese as SPs, then Baez can stay in the closer role.

Baez recorded over 7 Ks per 9 innings, but walks a lot of hitters. He has a tendency to blow up under pressure in save situations. He'll be on a short leash, and there are other strong candidates for the job, like Herrera.

penguin12 · 12-05-2002, 09:03 PM

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Indians pick up another SP. I think they're pretty set on Baez in the closer role, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to keep him in the starting role during the spring in case they need him there.

I'd like to see Snyder succeed at third because he has some pop, but having Johnny Mac there would be nice. Nothing would get through the infield. They'd only have 20 homeruns combined though. Runs are going to be at a premium this year!

mkempton · 12-05-2002, 10:02 PM

Speaking of John McDonald, would you prefer to see as the Indians' starting shortstop next season if you had your way: Vizquel, McDonald or Phillips? For the sake of argument, pretend there was no fan influence and that Vizquel is willing to waive his NTC for a deal you've found that benefits both teams.

In other words, salary and fan considerations aside, who is your starting SS?

Personally, I'd make my infield Snyder, Mac, Phillips and Broussard. Might as well start the future now, if I can get something for Vizquel (he wouldn't sit on the bench for these guys yet). Peralta would be my reserve when he shows he's ready.

12-04-2002, 01:35 PM	#1
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	Indians' offseason: it's broke, but may be fixed next year Jim Thome has bolted. The team is amidst a massive restructuring, looking to be competitive in 04-05. The fans are pissed. What lies ahead? C Diaz, Perez (FA), Bard, Martinez 1B Broussard 2B McDonald SS Vizquel 3B Fryman LF Garcia CF Bradley RF Lawton DH Burks IF Gutierrez, Snyder, Phillips, LaRocca, Selby OF Stevens (FA), Magruder, Crisp, Escobar SP Sabathia, Drese, Rodriguez, Westbrook, Phillips, Tallet, Nagy (FA), Wright (FA), Burba (FA) RP Wickman (injured, out for 03), Baez, Wohlers, Mulholland (FA), Riske, Paronto, Riggan, Sadler __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

12-04-2002, 01:51 PM	#2
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	The fans need to get a grip. Nobody wins every year. Losing star players is what happens to mid-market and small market teams. Montreal has lost more great players than Cleveland by a wide margin. Show a little faith in a farm system that has been able to produce Belle-Thome-Ramirez in the last fourteen years plus others. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

12-05-2002, 12:10 PM	#9
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	why does a team that is gonna contend for nothing need a closer? __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

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12-04-2002, 10:09 PM	#3
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Fryman has retired. There is significant talent here, but it will probably take two years to gel into something. The Twins could be ripe for the picking by then.

12-04-2002, 11:18 PM	#4
mkempton NetShrine Rookie Of The Year Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 67	I'm thinking they'll start w/ something I can't even fathom, but here's hoping they don't sign anyone dumb in angst. 1B - Broussard 2B - Johnny Mac/Phillips SS - The annoited one 3B - Phillips/Synder C - Martinez (hopefully)/Bard/Diaz LF - Burks/Lawton (will he be back in time?) CF - Escobar/Bradley RF - Garcia (is he signed?) DH - Burks/Broussard What do you guys think about Baez going back to the 'pen? And does anyone have Jeff Manto's phone number? This time he could negotiate a major league salary and starting job.

12-05-2002, 11:39 AM	#6
mkempton NetShrine Rookie Of The Year Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 67	I'd say the Indians have had better luck getting good relievers than league-average starters. And gosh, it seemed like he was a lot better than average in '02. Shows me how bad everyone else around him was.

12-05-2002, 11:42 AM	#7
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Looking at the list, I'd say the Indians will need Baez to start. They might decide they need to use him as the designated-ninth-inning-pitcher.

12-05-2002, 11:53 AM	#8
mkempton NetShrine Rookie Of The Year Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 67	I thought they declared he would be the 9th-inning man months ago. I wasn't too impressed with the idea, but I'm not sure who their best reliever is with him not in there. Riske's kinda gone downhill in my eyes. He was the Chosen One in my eyes for a few years, but his consistancy scares me.

12-05-2002, 01:17 PM	#10
mkempton NetShrine Rookie Of The Year Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 67	Okay, you win. What ever became of Sean Depaula? I see he got rocked this year in 6.3 innings. He's not on the 40-man roster.

12-05-2002, 01:57 PM	#13
OaktownTribeFan Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Bullpen Posts: 529	Regarding Baez, Shapiro's apparently hoping that two of the trio of Tallet, Lee and Traber work out next year, so he'll have at least 4 strong starters. If he has Sabathia, Tallet, Lee, Rodriguez, and Drese as SPs, then Baez can stay in the closer role. Baez recorded over 7 Ks per 9 innings, but walks a lot of hitters. He has a tendency to blow up under pressure in save situations. He'll be on a short leash, and there are other strong candidates for the job, like Herrera.

12-05-2002, 09:03 PM	#14
penguin12 NetShrine Fan Favorite Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 86	I wouldn't be surprised to see the Indians pick up another SP. I think they're pretty set on Baez in the closer role, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to keep him in the starting role during the spring in case they need him there. I'd like to see Snyder succeed at third because he has some pop, but having Johnny Mac there would be nice. Nothing would get through the infield. They'd only have 20 homeruns combined though. Runs are going to be at a premium this year!

12-05-2002, 10:02 PM	#15
mkempton NetShrine Rookie Of The Year Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 67	Speaking of John McDonald, would you prefer to see as the Indians' starting shortstop next season if you had your way: Vizquel, McDonald or Phillips? For the sake of argument, pretend there was no fan influence and that Vizquel is willing to waive his NTC for a deal you've found that benefits both teams. In other words, salary and fan considerations aside, who is your starting SS? Personally, I'd make my infield Snyder, Mac, Phillips and Broussard. Might as well start the future now, if I can get something for Vizquel (he wouldn't sit on the bench for these guys yet). Peralta would be my reserve when he shows he's ready.

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