Mannymania

[Ytown Tribe fan]

I was looking at Barry's career totals and averages today, and then I looked at Manny's career totals and averages.

In about 7 years, Manny will be all the rave and it'll be "Barry WHO?"

[hmrsf]

You have been playing with Lee's CD!

I was thinking the same thing. This really is a special player. I think he is misunderstood by the press. He is adored in my house. History will look kindly upon him.

[pathogan]

...I see is that he seems to have an old body, the kind that breaks down and doesnt age well.Hope I'm wrong, I do think he's the best right handed hitter of his time

[gyb13]

Manny thru 2002 (age 30)
1229 G, 316 AVG, 411 OBP, 599 SLG, 1010 OPS, 310 HR, 1036 RBI, 695 BB, 1012 SO

Barry thru 1994 (age 30)
1281 G, 285 AVG, 394 OBP, 537 SLG, 930 OPS, 259 HR, 760 RBI, 811 BB, 712 SO

(career, per 162 gms)
Manny 585 AB, 111 R, 185 H, 40 2B, 41 HR, 137 RBI, 92 BB, 133 SO

Barry 554 AB, 122 R, 164 H, 34 2B, 41 HR, 110 RBI, 128 BB, 88 SO

now, will Manny age as gracefully as Barry? also, there is the slight era difference. Through 2001, Barry's career OPS+ (OPS relative to the league average) was 171, vs Manny's 153. This gap surely widened in 2002.

[Husier]

There are some reasons not to take the numbers strictly at face value. Manny's played in a more offensive-oriented era and in better ballparks for hitters, which explains much (if not all) his advantage.


Plus, there's the defense issue. Manny doesn't have Bonds' defensive value, and chances are he'll be a fulltime DH when he gets to his late 30s. Bonds, playing in the NL, hasn't had that luxury.

[Max Power]

Husier - good points.

Agreed.

[hmrsf]

Originally posted by Husier
There are some reasons not to take the numbers strictly at face value. Manny's played in a more offensive-oriented era and in better ballparks for hitters, which explains much (if not all) his advantage.


Plus, there's the defense issue. Manny doesn't have Bonds' defensive value, and chances are he'll be a fulltime DH when he gets to his late 30s. Bonds, playing in the NL, hasn't had that luxury.

I hate to dissagree but I must. Fenway is almost a neutral ballpark and has been since the late 80's. Manny Ramirez defensive skills are the most underrated in the AL. He has a cannon for an arm. Never seen anyone hit the net and bypass the catcher before from left like that. He needs to be moved to right. He is far from a full time DH. Don't let the Boston press underrate this supperstar player. He can do everything but run and that is due to fear of blowing a hammy.

He lost almost 1/4 of a season this year due to injury and still put up incredible numbers. He concevieably could have walked away with the triple crown and MVP. He may break Gerig slam record. Ramirez is the closest thing we have to Bonds in the AL. Imagine Bondslike without the tude and younger!!!!

From a guy who spent the last 6 years in a seat directly behind Manny - the most naturally talented person I have ever seen - he has a hidden drive that he won't let people know about - but his work ethic when it comes to baseball is absolutely teriffic.

My worry with him is that he is a candidate to break down, and if these injuries that everyone mocks him for milking are, in fact, real injuries that hinder his play - it may be a bad sign for the future.

But to compare him to Bonds?

Not yet.

[hmrsf]

Originally posted by CpUltravox


But to compare him to Bonds?

Not yet.

Name another player in the AL who is closer to compare to Bonds.

[Skip]

Originally posted by hmrsf
Name another player in the AL who is closer to compare to Bonds.

He may be the closest comp to Bonds (I have no opinion here), but that doesnt make him comparable to Bonds. We've spent the past year debating Bond's surge into the top 1-3-5 hitters of all time, and now we're saying Manny is comparable to that? Yes, he might get there, but Bonds IS there. Manny's career is not comparable to Bonds at this point, he's merely an interesting conjecture - as Griff Jr. and Big Mac once were.

[boot2112]

I find Manny more like Frank Thomas than Barry Bonds. I hope that Manny does not have the injury problems that Thomas has had and I don't forsee him hitting Frank's low points. However they are verry similiar as right handed batters during their 20's. Manny has a bit more raw or natural power and Frank a bit more plate discipline. These two are more similiar than Bonds and Manny.

To answer hmrsf I would say Arod is closer to Bonds at the same age with era adjustments.

[hmrsf]

Guess this is a time will tell.

I put my money on Manny!!!!

[Skip]

Originally posted by hmrsf
Guess this is a time will tell.

I put my money on Manny!!!!

Over Barry?? That is way way way out on a limb. Anyway, I've got $100.

[hmrsf]

Originally posted by Skip
Over Barry?? That is way way way out on a limb. Anyway, I've got $100.

I have never bet before. 100 nickles to match Barry!


I come from a family that lost a fortune due to gambling. True story. Legend has it that the Comstock fortune from the Comstock Load and Silver was all lost to gambling. Sorry for the the thread hijack!

[gyb13]

Originally posted by Husier
There are some reasons not to take the numbers strictly at face value. Manny's played in a more offensive-oriented era and in better ballparks for hitters, which explains much (if not all) his advantage.

that's the point I was making when I showed Barry's clear lead in OPS+