Is managing in the minors a dead end?

Fuzzy Bear · 10-31-2002, 07:46 PM

It doesn't seem that too many of today's managerial vacancies go to the organization's AAA skipper.

You would think that the AAA manager would be the most likely to succeed (or, at least, likely to succeed) because he has actually done the job of game managing, recognizing that, even at the AAA level, there is a player development emphasis that is unique to the minor leagues that is different from the focus on pure winning at the major league level.

Willie Randolph has not been made a manager, and one reason cited is that he hasn't managed in the minor leagues. How much minor league managing experience do any of today's managers really have? Would Willie do well to take a AAA post, rather than a major league coaching job?

sweaver · 10-31-2002, 07:51 PM

I think Randolph would have a better shot if he had actually done some managing somewhere. That's his best bet.

For each team, the top choice is generally someone off the manager-go-round. The second choice is their AAA guy.

moose · 10-31-2002, 08:13 PM

rob neyer's latest suggests that good managing in the minors leads to good managing in the majors.

he also suggests that maybe mad minors managing leads to not getting a managing job in the majors

SmedIndy · 10-31-2002, 10:13 PM

Not a dead end - look at Wedge.

You probably move up from the minors to the coaching staff - and catch your break in another organization.

I'd like to have my manager have some AA or AAA experience managing a club because unlike A there may be SOME expectation to win instead of JUST playing "prospects". Not always, and not absolute, but at least in AA and AAA you're dealing with (hopefully) the best of the organization.

JamesI · 10-31-2002, 10:59 PM

I'd prefer to see a successful manager promoted from AAA to the majors rather than same old retread not good enough for some other team. Your more likely to get a great manager that way. How many guys who have already been fired 2-3 times as a manager win World Series rings with a new team?

Duque · 10-31-2002, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by moose

he also suggests that maybe mad minors managing leads to not getting a managing job in the majors

Maybe mad minors managing...try saying that 10 times fast.

I don't think a club's AAA skipper is usually expected to take over at the ML level. I do think it's a nice audition for a job with another club.

What really helps, of course, is being a coach on a successful ML staff - if Joe Torre managed the Rockies and Willie Randolph was his 3B coach, would his name be tossed around so much?

TimmyB · 11-01-2002, 04:42 PM

Bench coach seems to have developed into a bit of a training ground.

It seems like the order is:
1) Former/current manager with major league managing experience
2) Coach -- 3rd base, bench
3) AAA

I could be wrong, but that's the feel I get from the last five or so season.

soxfan121 · 11-01-2002, 05:02 PM

I dunno. Seemed to work for Eric Wedge, Ned Yost, Grady Little, Joel Skinner, Tony Pena, Jim Tracy, Carlos Tosca, Buck Showalter, Bruce Kimm, Ken Macha, Mike Scocsia, and many others.

Not managing in the minors seems to be hurting Willie Randolph. But not Bob Brenly, Alan Trammell, or Joe Torre.

I don't believe that managing in the minors is a "dead end". Sure it is for some, but that's because of the limited amount of jobs on the major league level. I think clubs generally want to have someone who has made the decisions in the past...be it as a minor league manager or bench coach.

Fuzzy Bear · 11-03-2002, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JamesI
How many guys who have already been fired 2-3 times as a manager win World Series rings with a new team?

Well, let's see . . .

Joe Torre (fired 3x as of 1996)
Whitey Herzog (fired 2x as of 1982)
Chuck Tanner (fired 2x as of 1979)
Billy Martin (fired 2x as of 1977)
Alvin Dark (fired 3x as of 1974)

If we include pennant-winners who didn't win the series, we get:

Jim Fregosi (fired 2x as of 1993)
John McNamara (fired 2x as of 1986)
Dick Williams (fired 4x as of 1984)

So 16% of the World Championships and 26% of all Pennant Winners since 1974 were won by teams skippered by multiple-retread managers.

One of the indicators about these retreads is what they did at previous stops. Dark and Williams had previously won pennants.
Torre, Herzog, McNamara, and Fregosi had all won division titles. In the case of all but McNamara, those skippers brought significant improvement to the teams they led to division titles. (McNamara is a "as good as his players" type of manager.)

So if you're going for a retreat, go for a winning retread! It's easy to tell which retread is which.

JamesI · 11-03-2002, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear
So if you're going for a retreat, go for a winning retread! It's easy to tell which retread is which.

Ok, didn't realize how many managers had been fired before winning a series.

I disagree though that its easy to tell a winning retread, at least by most GMs out there.

11-04-2002, 01:22 PM

So should the Mariners hire Phil Garner or not?

10-31-2002, 07:46 PM	#1
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	Is managing in the minors a dead end? It doesn't seem that too many of today's managerial vacancies go to the organization's AAA skipper. You would think that the AAA manager would be the most likely to succeed (or, at least, likely to succeed) because he has actually done the job of game managing, recognizing that, even at the AAA level, there is a player development emphasis that is unique to the minor leagues that is different from the focus on pure winning at the major league level. Willie Randolph has not been made a manager, and one reason cited is that he hasn't managed in the minor leagues. How much minor league managing experience do any of today's managers really have? Would Willie do well to take a AAA post, rather than a major league coaching job?

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10-31-2002, 07:51 PM	#2
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	I think Randolph would have a better shot if he had actually done some managing somewhere. That's his best bet. For each team, the top choice is generally someone off the manager-go-round. The second choice is their AAA guy.

10-31-2002, 08:13 PM	#3
moose Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Socs Posts: 3,400	rob neyer's latest suggests that good managing in the minors leads to good managing in the majors. he also suggests that maybe mad minors managing leads to not getting a managing job in the majors

10-31-2002, 10:13 PM	#4
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Not a dead end - look at Wedge. You probably move up from the minors to the coaching staff - and catch your break in another organization. I'd like to have my manager have some AA or AAA experience managing a club because unlike A there may be SOME expectation to win instead of JUST playing "prospects". Not always, and not absolute, but at least in AA and AAA you're dealing with (hopefully) the best of the organization.

10-31-2002, 10:59 PM	#5
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	I'd prefer to see a successful manager promoted from AAA to the majors rather than same old retread not good enough for some other team. Your more likely to get a great manager that way. How many guys who have already been fired 2-3 times as a manager win World Series rings with a new team?

11-01-2002, 04:42 PM	#7
TimmyB NetShrine's Magic 8-Ball Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Where the cops speak slow and the air is nice Posts: 2,591	Bench coach seems to have developed into a bit of a training ground. It seems like the order is: 1) Former/current manager with major league managing experience 2) Coach -- 3rd base, bench 3) AAA I could be wrong, but that's the feel I get from the last five or so season.

11-01-2002, 05:02 PM	#8
soxfan121 Renounced Membership 7/9/03 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Live Free Or Die, USA Posts: 1,335	I dunno. Seemed to work for Eric Wedge, Ned Yost, Grady Little, Joel Skinner, Tony Pena, Jim Tracy, Carlos Tosca, Buck Showalter, Bruce Kimm, Ken Macha, Mike Scocsia, and many others. Not managing in the minors seems to be hurting Willie Randolph. But not Bob Brenly, Alan Trammell, or Joe Torre. I don't believe that managing in the minors is a "dead end". Sure it is for some, but that's because of the limited amount of jobs on the major league level. I think clubs generally want to have someone who has made the decisions in the past...be it as a minor league manager or bench coach.

11-04-2002, 01:22 PM	#11
CpUltravox Posts: n/a	So should the Mariners hire Phil Garner or not?

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