How much can one player effect total attendance?

10-23-2002, 11:53 AM

This is an offshoot of the "Wither Jim Thome" thread...

Quote:

Originally posted by CpUltravox
I've got a question - and I don't know the answer - but what do you think the effect is of one player on total attendance? I mean... not a John Mabry type player, or even a stud pitcher like Pedro - but what do you think the effect of a star player - a Bonds, a Thome, a prime Griffey etc... is on home attendance?

Off the top of my head, the only player I've really ever associated a large spike in attendance with is McGwire, but I haven't thought about it much.

Can a player of Thome's ilk increase revenues by 5-6 million (300,000 tix) by himself? My guess is no, only a team effort can do that. I don't think 3,500-4,000 people go to a game just to see one player. I don't know... Can Thome have that effect? If he can, I sign him in a heartbeat, despite my earlier protests.

Can one player affect attendance that much? Has someone historically? Is there anyone now that could do so?

sweaver · 10-23-2002, 11:56 AM

Not much.

While on the road, fans might show up to see a Babe Ruth or a Barry Bonds, the effect is fairly small. The biggest examples I can think of lately were McGwire's home run chase in 1998, and Mark Fidrych in his rookie year packing the park. The biggest effect I can think of would be negative, as when a team (such as the Indians) traded off most of their stars, and attendance declined. Not exactly the same thing, but in a similar line.

tortured angel · 10-23-2002, 01:18 PM

I agree on the negative side. Sending a signal that you'rew gearing up for 2004 might make the fans decide to do the same thing.
If anyone has an effect on home attendance ii would suspect it would be starting pitchers. I know when I was choosing which games to go to as a kid I always checked to see when Ryan was pitching. If he wasn't getting a start in that particular series I looked for Tannana or Figueroa before he was traded to the %$#%@!#@$ Yankees.

gyb13 · 10-23-2002, 01:27 PM

at home, I don't think a particular player, year in and year out, will affect attendance positively - specific years may do this (Cal's streak, HR or other milestone chases) though, but the effect is probably larger on the road.

KCBOOMER · 10-23-2002, 01:35 PM

Its hard to tell about home team stars. Fans usually come out if the team is winning and not if they aren't.

I think a true stud on roll can make a 10K or more difference on the road. Particularly if it's a pitcher. Remember how Vida Blue was drawing across the country or even Mark Fidrych. I know Koufax used to pack them in. I expect we would see a good bump caused when Pedro pitches.

soxfan121 · 10-23-2002, 01:41 PM

Other than Bonds and McGwire, I can't think of anyone else who had the capability to turn 30,000 fans into sellouts for the home team.

The toughest ticket in Boston is when Pedro pitches. If Fenway had the capacity (and wasn;t already a darned-near sellout) Pedro would put an additional 10,000 fannies in the seats.

pathogan · 10-23-2002, 02:06 PM

...Gooden in 84, 85, FERNANDOMANIA,The Bird[all to briefly}Vida Blue in 71,McGwire in 88...mostly, I dont think one player does it. Koufax did. I didnt see much of a spike for Bonds,or sosa...

TGwynn19 · 10-23-2002, 03:37 PM

The biggest factor that I use to determine whether I am going to Miami or Tampa to see a game is who are they playing. So I my case star power does draw.

SmedIndy · 10-23-2002, 03:39 PM

You have to be someone having an impact season playing for a moribund team (e.g. Fidrych and Ryan with the Angels) - otherwise, no.

Skip · 10-23-2002, 04:21 PM

A player on a visiting team can make a notable difference for a specific game or homestand. I dont think it would affect total attendance all that much though, because it'd be a one shot deal. I'd have paid in blood to see Aaron in Cinci at the beginning of the '74 season, but to see him hit number 711 or 717 - most would say 'whoop-de-damn-do'. Marginal fans are drawn to milestones much much more than they are to players.

pwdennis · 10-23-2002, 05:31 PM

I don't think there are many players who can have a direct affect on attendence, although when Michael Jordan and the Birmingham Barons came to Tinker Field to play the place sold out !

pathogan · 10-23-2002, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwdennis
I don't think there are many players who can have a direct affect on attendence, although when Michael Jordan and the Birmingham Barons came to Tinker Field to play the place sold out !

SHOELESSJOE3 · 10-24-2002, 08:16 AM

Ruth has to be the best example of one player effecting attendance. Mac and Barry are other good examples, but they did not draw the crowds over as long a time span as Ruth did. The Giants owned N.Y. until Ruth joined the Yanks in 1920. John McGraw embarrassed because the Yanks were drawing more at the Polo Grounds than his Giants, booted the Yanks out of the Polo Grounds. When Ruth came to the Yanks in 1920 they became the first team to draw over a million fans. Fans mobbed ticket offices in away parks when Ruth came to town. It was noted that at home or on the road many fans would leave in the late innings if they believed Ruth would not come to bat any more in that game.

SmedIndy · 10-24-2002, 10:18 AM

Of course, before then, the Highlanders weren't exactly the best team either. Their only fans seemed to be gamblers when Hal Chase was around....

SHOELESSJOE3 · 10-24-2002, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Of course, before then, the Highlanders weren't exactly the best team either. Their only fans seemed to be gamblers when Hal Chase was around....

Thats true, but they were the N.Y. Yankees in 1913, 7 years before Ruth joined them. The point is no matter what success they had and what thier status was, in 1920 they became a big draw. It's probably safe to say that any team that would have purchased Ruth in 1920 would have a hugh increase in attendance.

10-23-2002, 01:27 PM	#4
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	at home, I don't think a particular player, year in and year out, will affect attendance positively - specific years may do this (Cal's streak, HR or other milestone chases) though, but the effect is probably larger on the road. __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

10-23-2002, 01:35 PM	#5
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	Its hard to tell about home team stars. Fans usually come out if the team is winning and not if they aren't. I think a true stud on roll can make a 10K or more difference on the road. Particularly if it's a pitcher. Remember how Vida Blue was drawing across the country or even Mark Fidrych. I know Koufax used to pack them in. I expect we would see a good bump caused when Pedro pitches. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

10-23-2002, 02:06 PM	#7
pathogan william Blake's Innkeeper Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 2,828	usually local phenomena ...Gooden in 84, 85, FERNANDOMANIA,The Bird[all to briefly}Vida Blue in 71,McGwire in 88...mostly, I dont think one player does it. Koufax did. I didnt see much of a spike for Bonds,or sosa...

10-23-2002, 05:31 PM	#11
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	I don't think there are many players who can have a direct affect on attendence, although when Michael Jordan and the Birmingham Barons came to Tinker Field to play the place sold out ! __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

10-24-2002, 08:16 AM	#13
SHOELESSJOE3 NetShrine MVP Join Date: May 2002 Location: Buffalo Posts: 207	Re: Novelty act Ruth has to be the best example of one player effecting attendance. Mac and Barry are other good examples, but they did not draw the crowds over as long a time span as Ruth did. The Giants owned N.Y. until Ruth joined the Yanks in 1920. John McGraw embarrassed because the Yanks were drawing more at the Polo Grounds than his Giants, booted the Yanks out of the Polo Grounds. When Ruth came to the Yanks in 1920 they became the first team to draw over a million fans. Fans mobbed ticket offices in away parks when Ruth came to town. It was noted that at home or on the road many fans would leave in the late innings if they believed Ruth would not come to bat any more in that game.

10-23-2002, 11:56 AM	#2
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Not much. While on the road, fans might show up to see a Babe Ruth or a Barry Bonds, the effect is fairly small. The biggest examples I can think of lately were McGwire's home run chase in 1998, and Mark Fidrych in his rookie year packing the park. The biggest effect I can think of would be negative, as when a team (such as the Indians) traded off most of their stars, and attendance declined. Not exactly the same thing, but in a similar line.

10-23-2002, 01:18 PM	#3
tortured angel Guest Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: middle east Posts: 573	I agree on the negative side. Sending a signal that you'rew gearing up for 2004 might make the fans decide to do the same thing. If anyone has an effect on home attendance ii would suspect it would be starting pitchers. I know when I was choosing which games to go to as a kid I always checked to see when Ryan was pitching. If he wasn't getting a start in that particular series I looked for Tannana or Figueroa before he was traded to the %$#%@!#@$ Yankees.

10-23-2002, 01:41 PM	#6
soxfan121 Renounced Membership 7/9/03 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Live Free Or Die, USA Posts: 1,335	Other than Bonds and McGwire, I can't think of anyone else who had the capability to turn 30,000 fans into sellouts for the home team. The toughest ticket in Boston is when Pedro pitches. If Fenway had the capacity (and wasn;t already a darned-near sellout) Pedro would put an additional 10,000 fannies in the seats.

10-23-2002, 03:37 PM	#8
TGwynn19 Guest Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 2,087	The biggest factor that I use to determine whether I am going to Miami or Tampa to see a game is who are they playing. So I my case star power does draw.

10-23-2002, 03:39 PM	#9
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	You have to be someone having an impact season playing for a moribund team (e.g. Fidrych and Ryan with the Angels) - otherwise, no.

10-23-2002, 04:21 PM	#10
Skip NetShrine Vagabond Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisville Posts: 7,866	A player on a visiting team can make a notable difference for a specific game or homestand. I dont think it would affect total attendance all that much though, because it'd be a one shot deal. I'd have paid in blood to see Aaron in Cinci at the beginning of the '74 season, but to see him hit number 711 or 717 - most would say 'whoop-de-damn-do'. Marginal fans are drawn to milestones much much more than they are to players.

10-24-2002, 10:18 AM	#14
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Of course, before then, the Highlanders weren't exactly the best team either. Their only fans seemed to be gamblers when Hal Chase was around....

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