Bobby Valentine for CUBS Manager?

Fuzzy Bear · 10-01-2002, 06:55 PM

I started the thread for Bobby Valentine and the Red Sox managing job in part because I love a spirited discussion. I am very much of two minds of whether or not Boston would be a good place for him to manage.

However, I have recently been re-examining V's managerial credentials. While his personality annoys me no end, his record is much better than I thought in that he has a winning record lifetime (1107-1072), with a pennant and more winning seasons than losing seasons to his credit.

In addition, the Cubs seem made to order for Valentine for several reasons:

1. The Cubs have talent, but are underachievers. Valentine has taken underachieving teams with losing records and gotten them to post winning records in both New York and Texas.

2. The Cubs have specific, correctable weaknesses, not a general absence of talent. This was the same situation Valentine faced when he came aboard in both Texas and New York.

3. The Cubs have ownership with deep pockets. Valentine has managed to keep his job over time with organizations that can afford to fire him in mid-contract.

4. The Cubs have some young talent, but are not a "youth movement" team. Valentine appears to prefer veteran talent, but is not averse to work into the lineup young players with hitting potential. In Texas, he made regulars out of Ruben Sierra, Pete Incavaglia, Juan Gonzalez, Ivan Rodriguez (19 years old; that took some guts), to name a few. In New York he was faced with the requirement to play veteran talent, but he did give regular jobs to Jay Payton, Benny Agbayani, and Rey Ordonez for the first time, plus he stuck with a struggling Edgardo Alfonzo, and moved him back to 2B (a move that was, sadly, undone).

V. had the late '80s Rangers posting winning records in consecutive years. This helped break the "loser" pall over the franchise. The Cubs have the same pall over them, and it shouldn't be. Valentine is what the Cubs need, right now! I wouldn't want him managing the Devil Rays; he can't succeed with as many young players as they have. But with the 2003 Cubs, Valentine will, if given the job, post a winning record.

Duque · 10-01-2002, 08:08 PM

No - I don't think Valentine would be a good manager for any club that wants to contend. Bobby V has become, partly by his own design, a show in and of himself now, and I think that would seriously hamper any team trying to win games and develop young players.

SmedIndy · 10-02-2002, 05:26 AM

You must be kidding, right. HELL NO!

(I wouldn't hire Valentine to manage a 7-11...)

LeGrandOrange · 10-02-2002, 05:45 AM

I want that "Hell no!" option in the poll here too.

rcartman28 · 10-02-2002, 09:51 AM

Yeah, sure....unless they snap up Tony Muser first.....

it's only the Cubs, after all.....

gyb13 · 10-02-2002, 10:16 AM

fuzz, the solution might be to try a would you hire bobby v, period? poll....

KCBOOMER · 10-02-2002, 10:36 AM

I'm going to give this a qualified yes. The Chicago press will not lionize BV to extent that he overshadows the team. He has shown that he can manage in the bigs.

I do wonder if the last couple years haven't taken the fire out of him, tho'.

pathogan · 10-02-2002, 11:26 AM

..the cubs are not serious about winning,so they wont do this

Fuzzy Bear · 10-02-2002, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pathogan
..the cubs are not serious about winning,so they wont do this

If they suddenly became serious about winning, should they do it?

VNV Nation · 10-02-2002, 05:20 PM

Once again, if the Cubs hired Bobby V., they would win the WS within two years.

gyb13 · 10-02-2002, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VNV Nation
Once again, if the Cubs hired Bobby V., they would win the WS within two years.

once again, this based on all the world series bobby v won in the past??

VNV Nation · 10-02-2002, 05:58 PM

BAsed on that, the only managers capable of winning a WS are Torre, LaRussa, Brenley, and Cox?

The Cubs have A LOT more talent than either of the teams V. inherited before, which improved by 25 and 17 games in his first season.

Fuzzy Bear · 10-02-2002, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gyb13
once again, this based on all the world series bobby v won in the past??

Valentine has won a pennant! A lot of guys with better P. R. and reputations can't say that!

gyb13 · 10-02-2002, 06:05 PM

you have to agree it's a pretty tall statement to say that, because he improved previous teams by circa 20 gms, he would make them ws champions in 2 yrs...
valentine has never won a division. though i will give him credit for good yrs in 1999-2000.
give them 20 wins, they're up at around 87 wins, maybe good enough for a wild card. that's still asking for a lot.

VNV Nation · 10-02-2002, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gyb13

give them 20 wins, they're up at around 87 wins, maybe good enough for a wild card. that's still asking for a lot.

but this is a better team than the Mets or the Rangers, by a mile.

View Poll Results: Would you hire Bobby Valentine to manage the Cubs?
Yes	5	33.33%
No	10	66.67%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

10-01-2002, 06:55 PM	#1
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	Bobby Valentine for CUBS Manager? I started the thread for Bobby Valentine and the Red Sox managing job in part because I love a spirited discussion. I am very much of two minds of whether or not Boston would be a good place for him to manage. However, I have recently been re-examining V's managerial credentials. While his personality annoys me no end, his record is much better than I thought in that he has a winning record lifetime (1107-1072), with a pennant and more winning seasons than losing seasons to his credit. In addition, the Cubs seem made to order for Valentine for several reasons: 1. The Cubs have talent, but are underachievers. Valentine has taken underachieving teams with losing records and gotten them to post winning records in both New York and Texas. 2. The Cubs have specific, correctable weaknesses, not a general absence of talent. This was the same situation Valentine faced when he came aboard in both Texas and New York. 3. The Cubs have ownership with deep pockets. Valentine has managed to keep his job over time with organizations that can afford to fire him in mid-contract. 4. The Cubs have some young talent, but are not a "youth movement" team. Valentine appears to prefer veteran talent, but is not averse to work into the lineup young players with hitting potential. In Texas, he made regulars out of Ruben Sierra, Pete Incavaglia, Juan Gonzalez, Ivan Rodriguez (19 years old; that took some guts), to name a few. In New York he was faced with the requirement to play veteran talent, but he did give regular jobs to Jay Payton, Benny Agbayani, and Rey Ordonez for the first time, plus he stuck with a struggling Edgardo Alfonzo, and moved him back to 2B (a move that was, sadly, undone). V. had the late '80s Rangers posting winning records in consecutive years. This helped break the "loser" pall over the franchise. The Cubs have the same pall over them, and it shouldn't be. Valentine is what the Cubs need, right now! I wouldn't want him managing the Devil Rays; he can't succeed with as many young players as they have. But with the 2003 Cubs, Valentine will, if given the job, post a winning record.

10-01-2002, 08:08 PM	#2
Duque NetShrine's Desperado Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Southern CA Posts: 2,638	No - I don't think Valentine would be a good manager for any club that wants to contend. Bobby V has become, partly by his own design, a show in and of himself now, and I think that would seriously hamper any team trying to win games and develop young players. __________________ Bad Andy It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.

10-02-2002, 09:51 AM	#5
rcartman28 NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hudson, WI Posts: 1,408	Yeah, sure....unless they snap up Tony Muser first..... it's only the Cubs, after all..... __________________ I would have looked out for the water main. But that's just me..... Brett Favre

10-02-2002, 10:16 AM	#6
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	fuzz, the solution might be to try a would you hire bobby v, period? poll.... __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

10-02-2002, 05:26 AM	#3
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	You must be kidding, right. HELL NO! (I wouldn't hire Valentine to manage a 7-11...)

10-02-2002, 05:45 AM	#4
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	I want that "Hell no!" option in the poll here too.

10-02-2002, 10:36 AM	#7
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	I'm going to give this a qualified yes. The Chicago press will not lionize BV to extent that he overshadows the team. He has shown that he can manage in the bigs. I do wonder if the last couple years haven't taken the fire out of him, tho'. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

10-02-2002, 11:26 AM	#8
pathogan william Blake's Innkeeper Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 2,828	No ..the cubs are not serious about winning,so they wont do this

10-02-2002, 05:20 PM	#10
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Once again, if the Cubs hired Bobby V., they would win the WS within two years.

10-02-2002, 05:58 PM	#12
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	BAsed on that, the only managers capable of winning a WS are Torre, LaRussa, Brenley, and Cox? The Cubs have A LOT more talent than either of the teams V. inherited before, which improved by 25 and 17 games in his first season.

10-02-2002, 06:05 PM	#14
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	you have to agree it's a pretty tall statement to say that, because he improved previous teams by circa 20 gms, he would make them ws champions in 2 yrs... valentine has never won a division. though i will give him credit for good yrs in 1999-2000. give them 20 wins, they're up at around 87 wins, maybe good enough for a wild card. that's still asking for a lot. __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

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