Baseball's Top 100

KCBOOMER · 08-30-2002, 01:51 PM

You might want to check out the Rob Neyer column that is guest written by Rob Wood today on the Top 100 players. Pete Rose enthusiasts should ignore this recommendation.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/neyer_rob/1424690.html

Skip · 08-30-2002, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KCBOOMER
Pete Rose enthusiasts should ignore this recommendation.

I'm a Rose fan (not an enthusiast) and don't see anything wrong w.r.t. Rose in this column. What did I miss?

Max Power · 08-30-2002, 02:19 PM

Check their voting on their site Skip..............

So, Wade Boggs is the #39 best player of all-time?

Skip · 08-30-2002, 02:55 PM

Got it. Rose = 102. No wonder I passed on joining SABR. Thbbbbb.

sweaver · 08-30-2002, 04:03 PM

I have some issues with it, but it's just a few people's opinions, worth no more than ours. Let's swap Rose and Boggs on the list, and go from there.

soxfan121 · 08-30-2002, 04:07 PM

Boggs may have been the human embodiment of a metronome but he certainly wasn't the 39th best player to ever play. That said, Boggs wasn't nearly as bad as some of his critics suggest.

Fuzzy Bear · 08-30-2002, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Max Power
Check their voting on their site Skip..............

So, Wade Boggs is the #39 best player of all-time?

I could agree to that assessment if I were convinced that Wade Boggs emerged as an average or better fielder at 3B. I remember an old volume of THE SCOUTING REPORT (I think it was 1984 or so) which said "Wade Boggs cannot field." in describing his defense. One or two years later I began to read accounts of how good a fielder Boggs was at 3B, and how hard he worked to improve. (Boggs actually won two (2) Gold Gloves, but I'm not convinced he deserved them, unless it was in the context of a weak field where somebody had to win the award.)

Boggs was a very unique player. He brought leadoff man skills to a power position, and he wasn't a speed burner, but he was on base a lot, he wasn't slow (he just wasn't fast) and he appears to be a defensive plus. On top of this, Boggs was undoubtedly ready for the majors 2 1/2 years before he was called up; had he been called up in 1980 his stats would be more impressive than they are right now. Boggs is 25th in career OBP and 33rd in BA; excellent for the era he played in. Subjectively, I can defend Boggs as the 39th best player more easily than I could defend Bill James' pick of Craig Biggio as 35th best.

JamesI · 08-30-2002, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear
Subjectively, I can defend Boggs as the 39th best player more easily than I could defend Bill James' pick of Craig Biggio as 35th best.

I agree here. Boggs is better than Biggio, but neither is top 50 all time.

sweaver · 08-30-2002, 10:44 PM

Yes, I scanned for Biggio on this Top 100, and didn't see him.

Skip · 08-31-2002, 12:19 AM

So any other comments on the SABR Top 100? Beyond the obvious snub of Rose, of course.

pwdennis · 08-31-2002, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear

On top of this, Boggs was undoubtedly ready for the majors 2 1/2 years before he was called up; had he been called up in 1980 his stats would be more impressive than they are right now. Boggs is 25th in career OBP and 33rd in BA; excellent for the era he played in. Subjectively, I can defend Boggs as the 39th best player more easily than I could defend Bill James' pick of Craig Biggio as 35th best.

I couldn't agree more - reverse the luck Boggs and Schmidt had in the way of opportunity and Boggs is the #1 3B by acclaimation , and Schmidt tucks in at #4 behind Boggs, Mathews and Brett (I know Smed will disagree with this, but Smed is wrong - Mike Schmidt was extraordinarily lucky to land with a bad Phillies team that had incredible patience with him)

Skip · 08-31-2002, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwdennis
I couldn't agree more - reverse the luck Boggs and Schmidt had in the way of opportunity and Boggs is the #1 3B by acclaimation , and Schmidt tucks in at #4 behind Boggs, Mathews and Brett

I am aghast. No freaking way. I already posted to this same point elsewhere, but WOW. All 4 are truly great players, but to bump Schmidt from his generally accepted spot above all three to suddenly being below all three would take some convincing for me. I'm willing to learn, but find this one a big pill to swallow.

pwdennis · 08-31-2002, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skip
I am aghast. No freaking way. I already posted to this same point elsewhere, but WOW. All 4 are truly great players, but to bump Schmidt from his generally accepted spot above all three to suddenly being below all three would take some convincing for me. I'm willing to learn, but find this one a big pill to swallow.

You miss the point, which is that if Schmidt got a later start to his career he would not have piled up the counting stats that he did.
The counting stats are all that give MJS the edge over Eddie Matthews or George Brett. Moreover, there are few examples of a team giving 350+ AB while hitting .196 and striking out over one-third of the time. Under even slightly different circumstances Schmidt could have been 25 or 26 before establishing himself as a regular

VNV Nation · 08-31-2002, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwdennis
The counting stats are all that give MJS the edge over Eddie Matthews or George Brett

Really?
How about

MVPs:
Schmidt 3
Brett+Mathews 1

Years in top 10 in MVP vote:
Schmidt 9
Brett+Mathews 9

HR titles
Schmidt 8
Brett+Mathews 2

Leading league OPS
Schmidt 5
Brett+Mathews 3

Gold Gloves
Schmidt 10
Brett+Mathews 1

poorme · 08-31-2002, 10:05 PM

PW - great post. schmidt would still be #1 in my book, but good point nonetheless.

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08-30-2002, 01:51 PM	#1
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	Baseball's Top 100 You might want to check out the Rob Neyer column that is guest written by Rob Wood today on the Top 100 players. Pete Rose enthusiasts should ignore this recommendation. http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/neyer_rob/1424690.html __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

08-30-2002, 02:19 PM	#3
Max Power NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: May 2002 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 5,548	Check their voting on their site Skip.............. So, Wade Boggs is the #39 best player of all-time? __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator "They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go." That's why there's NetShrine.com

08-30-2002, 02:55 PM	#4
Skip NetShrine Vagabond Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisville Posts: 7,866	Got it. Rose = 102. No wonder I passed on joining SABR. Thbbbbb.

08-30-2002, 04:03 PM	#5
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	I have some issues with it, but it's just a few people's opinions, worth no more than ours. Let's swap Rose and Boggs on the list, and go from there.

08-30-2002, 04:07 PM	#6
soxfan121 Renounced Membership 7/9/03 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Live Free Or Die, USA Posts: 1,335	Boggs may have been the human embodiment of a metronome but he certainly wasn't the 39th best player to ever play. That said, Boggs wasn't nearly as bad as some of his critics suggest.

08-30-2002, 10:44 PM	#9
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Yes, I scanned for Biggio on this Top 100, and didn't see him.

08-31-2002, 12:19 AM	#10
Skip NetShrine Vagabond Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisville Posts: 7,866	So any other comments on the SABR Top 100? Beyond the obvious snub of Rose, of course.

08-31-2002, 10:05 PM	#15
poorme Guest Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: washington dc Posts: 2,625	PW - great post. schmidt would still be #1 in my book, but good point nonetheless.

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