The Heisman Trophy

sweaver · 12-03-2002, 11:47 AM

Who do you think should win the Heisman this year?

Craig S. · 12-03-2002, 12:12 PM

First, I'll mention a couple of guys who will get consideration but who I don't think deserve the award:

Brad Banks - He had a good year, but they played a fairly easy schedule (47th in the nation). Had he beaten Iowa State, or played and won against OSU, I would consider him.

Larry Johnson - As I've mentioned in previous threads, his yards were piled up against patsies. In their 3 losses, he barely managed 200 yards. He hasn't proven he can even run against a good defense.

Byron Leftwich - It's hard to measure a guy's quality when he plays against Buffalo and loses to Akron. Had they managed to go undefeated in conference play, or beat V. Tech, I'd give Leftwich more consideration. I think a QB has to have the ability to pull out big victories for his team, and not against the likes of Central Michigan or Miami (OH).

Now, the guys I would consider:

Carson Palmer - He completely turned the team around with his performance. They had the talent, but they needed someone to step up and deliver. I've never liked USC, but this guy has been awesome. Just ask any Notre Dame fan who had to watch their team get absolutely destroyed last Saturday night.

Willis McGahee - At the end of last season, he was projected as the third-string back. Then Clinton Portis went to the NFL, Frank Gore got hurt, and Miami fans were stuck with this unproven kid. All he did was break the team record for touchdowns, not an easy thing to do when your offense has about 5 options on every play. He could leave this year and be a top-5 pick. (But please let him stay!)

Ken Dorsey - Another year, another chance at an undefeated season. He hasn't been spectacular, but his TD-INT numbers are very similar to Leftwich, who seems to get more attention. In the Florida State game, he took over in the 4th quarter when it looked like the streak was over.

From those three, I'd likely pick Dorsey. I don't think he's had a season for the ages, but neither has anyone else. Dorsey has put up good numbers and has been the leader of the likely national champions. If he manages these last 2 victories, I can't imagine denying him the award. The Heisman is supposed to be about the most outstanding player, not the most outstanding stats. For my money, it's Dorsey. And if someone besides Dorsey, McGahee, or Palmer wins, it would be a sham.

KCBOOMER · 12-03-2002, 12:24 PM

The Heisman has truly become a joke amongst awards. If Ken Dorsey wins they ought to rename it the Ken Dorsey Award or the Gino Toretta Award.

Craig S. · 12-03-2002, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KCBOOMER
The Heisman has truly become a joke amongst awards. If Ken Dorsey wins they ought to rename it the Ken Dorsey Award or the Gino Toretta Award.

It's not called the "Best NFL Prospect" award. It's for the best player in college. Just because you don't have a cannon for an arm, and because you happen to play for a great team, shouldn't mean you're excluded.

Who has been so much better than Dorsey that they deserve it?

TGwynn19 · 12-03-2002, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig S.

Who has been so much better than Dorsey that they deserve it?

Brad Banks. 1st in Nation in passing effeciency. 4 INTS all season.

You stated that Palmer completly turned his team around this season with his play. Iowa was not even ranked in the top 25 until the 6th week of the season and will finish no lower than 3rd. No one has been more valuable to his team than Banks, IMO.

Craig S. · 12-03-2002, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TGwynn19
Brad Banks. 1st in Nation in passing effeciency. 4 INTS all season.

You stated that Palmer completly turned his team around this season with his play. Iowa was not even ranked in the top 25 until the 6th week of the season and will finish no lower than 3rd. No one has been more valuable to his team than Banks, IMO.

I guess that's where part of the problem lies. The Heisman isn't for the MVP, but for the most outstanding player. I think Banks had a great year, but I'm really not sold on their schedule. I think Miami's nonconference schedule was much more difficult - Florida, FSU, Tennessee - than was Iowa's, although I give Iowa credit for beating both Michigan and Penn State.

I don't think Banks has been the most outstanding player, but that's a tough thing to measure in college football. If they decide to look at from an MVP perspective, then I couldn't say anything negative about him. And it's hard to dislike Banks or Iowa.

pwdennis · 12-03-2002, 07:42 PM

Carson Palmer
Willis MaGahee
Ken Dorsey

in the order listed

sweaver · 12-04-2002, 02:30 PM

I am being a

, but I support Avon Cobourne of WVU. He has carried the offense as the team has bounced back from 3-8 last year to 9-3 this year. No defense, from Miami to Virginia Tech to Wisconsin, has stopped him.

Craig S. · 12-04-2002, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sweaver
I am being a , but I support Avon Cobourne of WVU. He has carried the offense as the team has bounced back from 3-8 last year to 9-3 this year. No defense, from Miami to Virginia Tech to Wisconsin, has stopped him.

I wouldn't vote for Cobourne, but I have to give props to West Virginia. I remember mocking them before the season, figuring they'd end up about 4-8. They gave Miami a run for their money, and they just beat an excellent Pittsburgh team. Great effort from them this season, and a great season for Cobourne.

KCBOOMER · 12-04-2002, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig S. Who has been so much better than Dorsey that they deserve it?

I am fully aware of what the award is supposed to be. That's why I believe Tommy Frazier should have won the year they gave it to Eddie George.

Dorsey has never even been the best player on his own team let alone in the nation. In QB's alone Carson Palmer has had a far better year. Amongst running backs there's Chris Brown of Colorado or the Johnson kid from Penn State. I'd say Clarett except he has missed time due to injury. WR Roy Williams of Texas is far superior and had a better year. I can't remember the QB at Washington State but a monster year.

And won't even talk about defensive players.

To give Palmer the award will be just like when they gave it to Toretta. He didn't screw up a juggernaut so he gets the award.

Craig S. · 12-04-2002, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KCBOOMER
To give Palmer the award will be just like when they gave it to Toretta. He didn't screw up a juggernaut so he gets the award.

I take it you mean "Dorsey" instead of "Palmer" here.

I see your point, but I guess I just don't see Dorsey in the same light as Toretta. For one thing, in their biggest scare of the year against FSU, it was Dorsey who led the team back in the 4th quarter. And I agree that he might not even be the best player on the team, which I why I would also advocate McGahee as a possible winner. But I really think that Dorsey has been a great QB, and not just a guy managing a great team. You can see evidence every time they put Derrick Crudup in there. It makes me nervous just thinking about him actually taking over next season.

If they give it to a RB, it should be McGahee. Chris Brown is too hot and cold, and Clarett was a first-half phenom. Even if Clarett stayed healthy, I'm not sure if he's really that good. And for receievers, the one who deserves it most is Charles Rogers from Michigan State. Horrible team, but what a great player.

Toretta beating Faulk was a sham. But there is no comparable guy to Faulk this year (even mentioning Larry Johnson is an absolute joke), and Dorsey is as deserving as anyone else.

sweaver · 12-04-2002, 10:20 PM

With no truly dominating offensive player, this would be a good year to give the award to a defensive player. Again, I would nominate a WVU player (since that's the only college team I really care about) in LB Grant Wiley.

qtlaw · 12-06-2002, 03:53 PM

I would give it to Johnson from PSU. I never rooted for PSU but Johnson looked elusive as hell when I saw him. 2,000 is hard to dismiss, even if he looked poor in the big games, especially in the Big Ten (er 11).

Palmer looked good in the Notre Dame game but his two interceptions which kept ND in the game were dreadful. I don't see him as being very spectacular.

I'd love to see Banks win it, if nothing else to validate that winners can come from anywhere.

LeGrandOrange · 12-07-2002, 01:27 AM

For qtlaw's reason, I'm rooting for Byron Leftwich. He left an enduring memory by being carried to the line in that game, but quite simply he feels like the best player in the nation this season. His heart is immeasurable, his statistics are, and they're very good to boot.

pathogan · 12-07-2002, 12:06 PM

...Johnson and Palmer might..i would think Palmer now...

12-03-2002, 11:47 AM	#1
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	The Heisman Trophy Who do you think should win the Heisman this year?

12-03-2002, 12:24 PM	#3
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	The Heisman has truly become a joke amongst awards. If Ken Dorsey wins they ought to rename it the Ken Dorsey Award or the Gino Toretta Award. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

12-03-2002, 07:42 PM	#7
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	Carson Palmer Willis MaGahee Ken Dorsey in the order listed __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

12-07-2002, 12:06 PM	#15
pathogan william Blake's Innkeeper Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 2,828	mcgahee should ...Johnson and Palmer might..i would think Palmer now...

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12-03-2002, 12:12 PM	#2
Craig S. Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,330	First, I'll mention a couple of guys who will get consideration but who I don't think deserve the award: Brad Banks - He had a good year, but they played a fairly easy schedule (47th in the nation). Had he beaten Iowa State, or played and won against OSU, I would consider him. Larry Johnson - As I've mentioned in previous threads, his yards were piled up against patsies. In their 3 losses, he barely managed 200 yards. He hasn't proven he can even run against a good defense. Byron Leftwich - It's hard to measure a guy's quality when he plays against Buffalo and loses to Akron. Had they managed to go undefeated in conference play, or beat V. Tech, I'd give Leftwich more consideration. I think a QB has to have the ability to pull out big victories for his team, and not against the likes of Central Michigan or Miami (OH). Now, the guys I would consider: Carson Palmer - He completely turned the team around with his performance. They had the talent, but they needed someone to step up and deliver. I've never liked USC, but this guy has been awesome. Just ask any Notre Dame fan who had to watch their team get absolutely destroyed last Saturday night. Willis McGahee - At the end of last season, he was projected as the third-string back. Then Clinton Portis went to the NFL, Frank Gore got hurt, and Miami fans were stuck with this unproven kid. All he did was break the team record for touchdowns, not an easy thing to do when your offense has about 5 options on every play. He could leave this year and be a top-5 pick. (But please let him stay!) Ken Dorsey - Another year, another chance at an undefeated season. He hasn't been spectacular, but his TD-INT numbers are very similar to Leftwich, who seems to get more attention. In the Florida State game, he took over in the 4th quarter when it looked like the streak was over. From those three, I'd likely pick Dorsey. I don't think he's had a season for the ages, but neither has anyone else. Dorsey has put up good numbers and has been the leader of the likely national champions. If he manages these last 2 victories, I can't imagine denying him the award. The Heisman is supposed to be about the most outstanding player, not the most outstanding stats. For my money, it's Dorsey. And if someone besides Dorsey, McGahee, or Palmer wins, it would be a sham.

12-04-2002, 02:30 PM	#8
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	I am being a , but I support Avon Cobourne of WVU. He has carried the offense as the team has bounced back from 3-8 last year to 9-3 this year. No defense, from Miami to Virginia Tech to Wisconsin, has stopped him.

12-04-2002, 10:20 PM	#12
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	With no truly dominating offensive player, this would be a good year to give the award to a defensive player. Again, I would nominate a WVU player (since that's the only college team I really care about) in LB Grant Wiley.

12-06-2002, 03:53 PM	#13
qtlaw Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: El Cerrito, CA Posts: 668	I would give it to Johnson from PSU. I never rooted for PSU but Johnson looked elusive as hell when I saw him. 2,000 is hard to dismiss, even if he looked poor in the big games, especially in the Big Ten (er 11). Palmer looked good in the Notre Dame game but his two interceptions which kept ND in the game were dreadful. I don't see him as being very spectacular. I'd love to see Banks win it, if nothing else to validate that winners can come from anywhere.

12-07-2002, 01:27 AM	#14
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	For qtlaw's reason, I'm rooting for Byron Leftwich. He left an enduring memory by being carried to the line in that game, but quite simply he feels like the best player in the nation this season. His heart is immeasurable, his statistics are, and they're very good to boot.

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