Disaster area

Ytown Tribe fan · 09-05-2002, 08:34 AM

Was he the worst player ever?

Looking for the player who did the most damage to his own teams over the longest career, I started with Johnnie Lee LeMaster.

Johnnie hit an inside-the-park homer in his first at bat at the 'Stick in '75. He should have quit right then.

During the next 12 years, over 1000 games and 3000 at bats, Johnnie managed to keep his OBA below .280 and his SLG below .290. These aren't historic lows, but compared to league norms, they were awful.

His best season was '83, when his OBA spiked at .317 and he drew 60 walks, stole 39 bases (in 58 attempts) and scored 81 runs for the Giants. He never scored more than 46 runs in any other season.

Defensively, he was about average at shortstop. It didn't seem that way to Giants fans, but he was getting better later in his career.

Johnnie is well-known for playing for three last-place teams in 1985. Less well-known is that he played on only two winning teams in his 12 seasons (only one in a full season).

After taking the '86 season off to recover, Johnnie finished with a few games with the '87 A's, batting .083 and even getting in one game as a DH. I guess they didn't want to use Reggie or Big Mac or Canseco that day.

The '87 A's had Canseco and McGwire (both drove in over 110 RBI), Lansford, Phillips, Steinbach, Dave Stewart, Jose Rijo. With Johnnie's help, they finished 81-81. They won 104 games the next year and never looked back.

VNV Nation · 09-05-2002, 09:26 AM

The worst player ever is someone who probably went 0-for-20.

poorme · 09-05-2002, 09:31 AM

probably played during the war.

pete gray?

SmedIndy · 09-05-2002, 09:51 AM

How about, "worst player with a sustained career?"

VNV Nation · 09-05-2002, 09:56 AM

Bill Bergen?

TGwynn19 · 09-05-2002, 11:01 AM

Eddie Brinkman?

VNV Nation · 09-05-2002, 11:41 AM

Man...Brinkman was about 7 times the player LeMaster was.

Skip · 09-05-2002, 12:03 PM

Just what is 7 times zero anyway?

Ytown Tribe fan · 09-05-2002, 01:53 PM

Brinkman is 1.3 times the player that LeMaster was. LeMaster earned 51 Win Shares in 1039 games, an average of 8.0 WS per 162 games. Brinkman earned 118 WS in 1845 Games, averaging 10.4 WS/162G.

Bergen is closer, but still better. Bill also earned 51 WS, but in 947 games, an average of 8.7WS/162G.

Gray played only 77 games in one season -- not long enough to do any real damage. In fact, Pete Gray (and other wartime players who wouldn't otherwise be regulars) helped baseball during the War.

Anyone who can beat 8.0 WS/162G in a sustained career?

VNV Nation · 09-05-2002, 01:58 PM

how about ray oyler...

8 WS per season seems pretty high for the worst player ever.

Ytown Tribe fan · 09-05-2002, 03:59 PM

I'll give you Ray Oyler. He played 542 games in 6 seasons and earned 19 Win Shares; that's just plain awful -- about 5.7WS/162G.

Almost any player will look good if he actually plays 162 games in a season. Figure that the average team wins 81 games in a 162-game season, meaning that there are 243 Win Shares to be had. If the team has a 25-man roster, the average player would earn 9.7 Win Shares in 162 games. When rosters were smaller, average players earned slightly more Win Shares despite playing fewer games.

I didn't use arbitrary playing-time cutoffs, since some players have longer careers as part-timers and some players play very well but for shorter careers. Lots and lots of players have really bad, really short careers. Maybe an appropriate cutoff would be Hall of Fame eligibility.

There's already a Hall of Shame, so maybe a "LeMaster Award" would be a better "honor" for the player who does the most damage to his team in a given season. The plaque could bear a likeness of a baseball diamond with "QUARANTINE" tape across it.

Pitchers would be eligible for the "Mulcahy Award". The plaque could show a pitchers mound ablaze and a ballplayer with a gasoline can feeding the flames.

We honor the best players in a variety of ways, and rightly so. It's high time we made known the players who make us cringe at the very mention of their names; the guys we LEAST want to see coming to bat, or on the mound, or afield, with the game on the line; the guys we hold most responsibile for our teams awful season; the Least Valuable Players. Give them their due.

Alan Smithee · 09-05-2002, 04:51 PM

Tommy Reynolds had 17 win shares in 513 games so thats . . . 5.36 WS/162g? about that. As a LF who could not run, caould not hit and was bad with the glove i think he had less value than oyler. if you really are looking for the worst player inMLB history id look for a guy like this. someone who has no value at all. ( at least bergen and oyler could play a little lae inning D.) same goes for mendoza and a number of other guys.

Fuzzy Bear · 09-05-2002, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VNV Nation
how about ray oyler...

8 WS per season seems pretty high for the worst player ever.

Oyler was pretty awful, but he did play in a terrible pitchers era. Hitting .190 isn't so awful when the league hits .230.

09-05-2002, 08:34 AM	#1
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Disaster area Was he the worst player ever? Looking for the player who did the most damage to his own teams over the longest career, I started with Johnnie Lee LeMaster. Johnnie hit an inside-the-park homer in his first at bat at the 'Stick in '75. He should have quit right then. During the next 12 years, over 1000 games and 3000 at bats, Johnnie managed to keep his OBA below .280 and his SLG below .290. These aren't historic lows, but compared to league norms, they were awful. His best season was '83, when his OBA spiked at .317 and he drew 60 walks, stole 39 bases (in 58 attempts) and scored 81 runs for the Giants. He never scored more than 46 runs in any other season. Defensively, he was about average at shortstop. It didn't seem that way to Giants fans, but he was getting better later in his career. Johnnie is well-known for playing for three last-place teams in 1985. Less well-known is that he played on only two winning teams in his 12 seasons (only one in a full season). After taking the '86 season off to recover, Johnnie finished with a few games with the '87 A's, batting .083 and even getting in one game as a DH. I guess they didn't want to use Reggie or Big Mac or Canseco that day. The '87 A's had Canseco and McGwire (both drove in over 110 RBI), Lansford, Phillips, Steinbach, Dave Stewart, Jose Rijo. With Johnnie's help, they finished 81-81. They won 104 games the next year and never looked back.

09-05-2002, 03:59 PM	#11
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	LeMaster Award/Mulcahy Award I'll give you Ray Oyler. He played 542 games in 6 seasons and earned 19 Win Shares; that's just plain awful -- about 5.7WS/162G. Almost any player will look good if he actually plays 162 games in a season. Figure that the average team wins 81 games in a 162-game season, meaning that there are 243 Win Shares to be had. If the team has a 25-man roster, the average player would earn 9.7 Win Shares in 162 games. When rosters were smaller, average players earned slightly more Win Shares despite playing fewer games. I didn't use arbitrary playing-time cutoffs, since some players have longer careers as part-timers and some players play very well but for shorter careers. Lots and lots of players have really bad, really short careers. Maybe an appropriate cutoff would be Hall of Fame eligibility. There's already a Hall of Shame, so maybe a "LeMaster Award" would be a better "honor" for the player who does the most damage to his team in a given season. The plaque could bear a likeness of a baseball diamond with "QUARANTINE" tape across it. Pitchers would be eligible for the "Mulcahy Award". The plaque could show a pitchers mound ablaze and a ballplayer with a gasoline can feeding the flames. We honor the best players in a variety of ways, and rightly so. It's high time we made known the players who make us cringe at the very mention of their names; the guys we LEAST want to see coming to bat, or on the mound, or afield, with the game on the line; the guys we hold most responsibile for our teams awful season; the Least Valuable Players. Give them their due.

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09-05-2002, 09:26 AM	#2
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	The worst player ever is someone who probably went 0-for-20.

09-05-2002, 09:31 AM	#3
poorme Guest Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: washington dc Posts: 2,625	probably played during the war. pete gray?

09-05-2002, 09:51 AM	#4
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	How about, "worst player with a sustained career?"

09-05-2002, 09:56 AM	#5
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Bill Bergen?

09-05-2002, 11:01 AM	#6
TGwynn19 Guest Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 2,087	Eddie Brinkman?

09-05-2002, 11:41 AM	#7
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Man...Brinkman was about 7 times the player LeMaster was.

09-05-2002, 12:03 PM	#8
Skip NetShrine Vagabond Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisville Posts: 7,866	Just what is 7 times zero anyway?

09-05-2002, 01:53 PM	#9
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Brinkman is 1.3 times the player that LeMaster was. LeMaster earned 51 Win Shares in 1039 games, an average of 8.0 WS per 162 games. Brinkman earned 118 WS in 1845 Games, averaging 10.4 WS/162G. Bergen is closer, but still better. Bill also earned 51 WS, but in 947 games, an average of 8.7WS/162G. Gray played only 77 games in one season -- not long enough to do any real damage. In fact, Pete Gray (and other wartime players who wouldn't otherwise be regulars) helped baseball during the War. Anyone who can beat 8.0 WS/162G in a sustained career?

09-05-2002, 01:58 PM	#10
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	how about ray oyler... 8 WS per season seems pretty high for the worst player ever.

09-05-2002, 04:51 PM	#12
Alan Smithee Guest Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 152	Tommy Reynolds had 17 win shares in 513 games so thats . . . 5.36 WS/162g? about that. As a LF who could not run, caould not hit and was bad with the glove i think he had less value than oyler. if you really are looking for the worst player inMLB history id look for a guy like this. someone who has no value at all. ( at least bergen and oyler could play a little lae inning D.) same goes for mendoza and a number of other guys.

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