Bill Hart

Ytown Tribe fan · 08-30-2002, 05:07 PM

Was he the worst pitcher ever?

The very worst pitchers never make it to the big leagues and those that do usually don't last long enough to do real damage. I went looking for a guy who somehow stuck around long enough to really hurt some teams.

Those mediocre pitchers that do somehow manage to stay are usually 19th Century journeymen and guys who bounce around from bad team to bad team, eking out a living somehow until no one wants them anymore.

I started with the most famous bad pitcher, Hugh "Losing Pitcher" Mulcahy. He certainly wasn't a good pitcher, but mostly because he played for bad teams.

Hugh started his big league career at age 21 for the '35 Phillies, who were bad. From then until '45, with four years off for WWII, Mulcahy's Phillies were either last or next-to-last in the NL. When they started improving to the middle of the pack in '46, they dumped him. He signed with the last-place Pirates the next year, then finally called it quits.

How bad was Mulcahy? Well, he was 45-89 for his career, a .336 W-L%, but his ERA was 4.49, compared to a league average ERA of 4.01, giving him an ERA+ of 89 over 1162 innings, which is bad but not truly awful. With an average team, he would have had a somewhat better W-L%, probably about .440. He was bad AND unlucky enough to pitch for awful teams.

Bill Hart played for the Philadelphia Athletics of the AA in 1886 and '87, when he was just 20. The A's were a middle of the pack club, slightly below .500 with Hart's help.

After four years off, Hart signed with the Brooklyn Grooms of the NL in 1892. The Grooms won 95 games, finishing 9 games back of Boston, in 3rd place. Hart went 9-12 for this otherwise fine team, which earned him another two years off.

Hart went 14-17 for the 1895 Pirates, who finished 71-61 in the middle of the pack, so the sent him to St. Louis. The Browns (as they were called back then) were 40-90 and Hart had an ERA almost 1 run above league average, which didn't help his record.

Hart stayed around for the 1897 Browns, one of the worst teams ever, finishing 29-102. Hart's ERA was almost 2 runs above league average but he had a sparkling 9-27 record, somewhat better than his team's W-L%.

Hart spent 1898 with the Pirates, who were .500 without him and 4 games under WITH him. After two more years off, Hart went to the Cleveland Blues of the newly formed AL. The Blues were 28 games under .500, and Hart went 7-11 to end his career.

How bad was Hart? Oddly, not as bad as the worst teams he pitched for. His Career ERA+ was 86 in 1582 innings, which is certainly worse than Mulcahy's, but his W-L percentages were better than the worst teams' even though his ERA's were bad. I guess it made up for the bad years he had with good teams early in his career.

Overall, Hart was 66-120 with an ERA of 4.65, compared to a league average ERA of 4.00. He had better luck than Mulcahy but was worse for a longer time than Mulcahy was. I'm guessing that Bill Hart did more damage in a big league uniform than any other pitcher.

Skip · 08-30-2002, 05:27 PM

[Artie Johnson] Verrrrry Interesting. [/AJ]

Nice piece!

poorme · 08-30-2002, 07:26 PM

I still vote for Jaime Navarro

Max Power · 08-30-2002, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by poorme
I still vote for Jaime Navarro

Ditto.

pwdennis · 08-31-2002, 12:37 AM

I don't know who the worst pitcher was but the ERAs of pitchers on bad teams often suffer due to fielding plays not made that should have been made (but not charged as errors). I would guess that Mulcahy was probably an average quality pitcher once you factor this in.

Ytown Tribe fan · 08-31-2002, 09:12 AM

I forgot all about Navarro, but I bet Chicago fans are still trying to erase him from their memories.

Was Jaime bad or was he injured; or was he just a talented head-case?

He had several seasons where he pitched very well, like his first few years in Milwaukee and his two years as a Cub, but he also had years where he was really awful, like his last years in Milwaukee and his stay with the White Sox.

Navarro almost single-handedly handed the AL-Central flag to Cleveland in '97 and '98, and Tribe fans should recognize that.

Even as a Cub he was famous for following good starts with bad starts. He may have been the most uneven pitcher ever, excepting perhaps Joaquin Andujar. But when he was on he was really good, sometimes for long stretches.

Something else was going on with Jaime.

Fuzzy Bear · 09-05-2002, 06:04 PM

What about Milt Gaston?

Alan Smithee · 09-05-2002, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear
What about Milt Gaston?

gaston's era+ was 97. he really was not that bad of a pitcher he just played on mostly awful teams.

as for worst ever? hmm jessie jefferson was really awful. steve dunning, pete broberg. ANd any bullpen lefties of the paul mirabella class. wosrt season I saw with my own eyes was Mike Parrott in 1980. hopeless.

gyb13 · 09-06-2002, 01:37 PM

since you're using ERA+ as one of your criteria, here's Navarro:
Career 89 ERA+ in 2055.1 IP, including a 4-yr run from 1997-2000 which may qualify for worst ever:
Yr W-L ERA ERA+
97 9-14 5.79 76
98 8-16 6.36 72
99 8-13 6.09 78
00 0-6 10.50 45

poorme · 09-06-2002, 01:40 PM

Navarro had no arm problems whatsoever. As healthy as a horse. Could throw 93-94. Total headcase.

Jose Lima also deserves consideration.

moose · 09-07-2002, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by poorme
Jose Lima also deserves consideration.

i wonder if he ever walks into the clubhouse on a day he's starting and yells, "it's lima time!" -- only to have all of his teammates say "aw [expletive" and the like

VNV Nation · 09-07-2002, 02:22 PM

Lima and Navarro have been far too good to be on any worst list. You could say Steve Carlton is the worst pitcher of all time by that definition.

gyb13 · 09-07-2002, 04:53 PM

Lima and Navarro had maybe 2-3 seasons where they were good, and stayed around because of it... Lima still has a few more years to go before he reaches Navarro status though.

tenkevcardinal · 09-07-2002, 05:07 PM

CAREER atleast 1000 IP

ERA DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE
1 Jim Hughey -.95 4.87 3.91
2 Jesse Jefferson -.92 4.81 3.89
3 Elmer Myers -.84 4.06 3.22
4 Carl Scheib -.84 4.88 4.04
5 Herm Wehmeier -.82 4.80 3.97
6 Alex Ferguson -.82 4.90 4.09
7 Mike Sullivan -.81 5.11 4.31
8 Randy Lerch -.80 4.53 3.73
9 Brian Bohanon -.76 5.19 4.43
10 Kid Carsey -.71 4.95 4.24

CAREER

RSAA RSAA
1 Kid Carsey -176
2 Herm Wehmeier -161
3 John Coleman -142
4 Bobby Witt -130
5 Mike Kekich -127
6 Bert Cunningham -122
7 Stump Wiedman -121
T8 Phil Ortega -118
T8 Jack Fisher -118
10 Bill Hart -116

Kid Carsey looks like a good candidate.

VNV Nation · 09-07-2002, 08:55 PM

As noted by Ytown, most of the worst pitchers by this method would be 19th-century guys.

Randy Lerch looks like a decent candidate.
he had a couple of decent years but was mostly a .500 or worse pitcher with a very good phillies team

08-30-2002, 05:07 PM	#1
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Bill Hart Was he the worst pitcher ever? The very worst pitchers never make it to the big leagues and those that do usually don't last long enough to do real damage. I went looking for a guy who somehow stuck around long enough to really hurt some teams. Those mediocre pitchers that do somehow manage to stay are usually 19th Century journeymen and guys who bounce around from bad team to bad team, eking out a living somehow until no one wants them anymore. I started with the most famous bad pitcher, Hugh "Losing Pitcher" Mulcahy. He certainly wasn't a good pitcher, but mostly because he played for bad teams. Hugh started his big league career at age 21 for the '35 Phillies, who were bad. From then until '45, with four years off for WWII, Mulcahy's Phillies were either last or next-to-last in the NL. When they started improving to the middle of the pack in '46, they dumped him. He signed with the last-place Pirates the next year, then finally called it quits. How bad was Mulcahy? Well, he was 45-89 for his career, a .336 W-L%, but his ERA was 4.49, compared to a league average ERA of 4.01, giving him an ERA+ of 89 over 1162 innings, which is bad but not truly awful. With an average team, he would have had a somewhat better W-L%, probably about .440. He was bad AND unlucky enough to pitch for awful teams. Bill Hart played for the Philadelphia Athletics of the AA in 1886 and '87, when he was just 20. The A's were a middle of the pack club, slightly below .500 with Hart's help. After four years off, Hart signed with the Brooklyn Grooms of the NL in 1892. The Grooms won 95 games, finishing 9 games back of Boston, in 3rd place. Hart went 9-12 for this otherwise fine team, which earned him another two years off. Hart went 14-17 for the 1895 Pirates, who finished 71-61 in the middle of the pack, so the sent him to St. Louis. The Browns (as they were called back then) were 40-90 and Hart had an ERA almost 1 run above league average, which didn't help his record. Hart stayed around for the 1897 Browns, one of the worst teams ever, finishing 29-102. Hart's ERA was almost 2 runs above league average but he had a sparkling 9-27 record, somewhat better than his team's W-L%. Hart spent 1898 with the Pirates, who were .500 without him and 4 games under WITH him. After two more years off, Hart went to the Cleveland Blues of the newly formed AL. The Blues were 28 games under .500, and Hart went 7-11 to end his career. How bad was Hart? Oddly, not as bad as the worst teams he pitched for. His Career ERA+ was 86 in 1582 innings, which is certainly worse than Mulcahy's, but his W-L percentages were better than the worst teams' even though his ERA's were bad. I guess it made up for the bad years he had with good teams early in his career. Overall, Hart was 66-120 with an ERA of 4.65, compared to a league average ERA of 4.00. He had better luck than Mulcahy but was worse for a longer time than Mulcahy was. I'm guessing that Bill Hart did more damage in a big league uniform than any other pitcher.

08-31-2002, 12:37 AM	#5
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	I don't know who the worst pitcher was but the ERAs of pitchers on bad teams often suffer due to fielding plays not made that should have been made (but not charged as errors). I would guess that Mulcahy was probably an average quality pitcher once you factor this in. __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

09-06-2002, 01:37 PM	#9
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	since you're using ERA+ as one of your criteria, here's Navarro: Career 89 ERA+ in 2055.1 IP, including a 4-yr run from 1997-2000 which may qualify for worst ever: Yr W-L ERA ERA+ 97 9-14 5.79 76 98 8-16 6.36 72 99 8-13 6.09 78 00 0-6 10.50 45 __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

09-07-2002, 04:53 PM	#13
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	Lima and Navarro had maybe 2-3 seasons where they were good, and stayed around because of it... Lima still has a few more years to go before he reaches Navarro status though. __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

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08-30-2002, 05:27 PM	#2
Skip NetShrine Vagabond Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisville Posts: 7,866	[Artie Johnson] Verrrrry Interesting. [/AJ] Nice piece!

08-30-2002, 07:26 PM	#3
poorme Guest Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: washington dc Posts: 2,625	I still vote for Jaime Navarro

08-31-2002, 09:12 AM	#6
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	I forgot all about Navarro, but I bet Chicago fans are still trying to erase him from their memories. Was Jaime bad or was he injured; or was he just a talented head-case? He had several seasons where he pitched very well, like his first few years in Milwaukee and his two years as a Cub, but he also had years where he was really awful, like his last years in Milwaukee and his stay with the White Sox. Navarro almost single-handedly handed the AL-Central flag to Cleveland in '97 and '98, and Tribe fans should recognize that. Even as a Cub he was famous for following good starts with bad starts. He may have been the most uneven pitcher ever, excepting perhaps Joaquin Andujar. But when he was on he was really good, sometimes for long stretches. Something else was going on with Jaime.

09-05-2002, 06:04 PM	#7
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	What about Milt Gaston?

09-06-2002, 01:40 PM	#10
poorme Guest Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: washington dc Posts: 2,625	Navarro had no arm problems whatsoever. As healthy as a horse. Could throw 93-94. Total headcase. Jose Lima also deserves consideration.

09-07-2002, 02:22 PM	#12
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Lima and Navarro have been far too good to be on any worst list. You could say Steve Carlton is the worst pitcher of all time by that definition.

09-07-2002, 05:07 PM	#14
tenkevcardinal Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Memphis Posts: 189	CAREER atleast 1000 IP ERA DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE 1 Jim Hughey -.95 4.87 3.91 2 Jesse Jefferson -.92 4.81 3.89 3 Elmer Myers -.84 4.06 3.22 4 Carl Scheib -.84 4.88 4.04 5 Herm Wehmeier -.82 4.80 3.97 6 Alex Ferguson -.82 4.90 4.09 7 Mike Sullivan -.81 5.11 4.31 8 Randy Lerch -.80 4.53 3.73 9 Brian Bohanon -.76 5.19 4.43 10 Kid Carsey -.71 4.95 4.24 CAREER RSAA RSAA 1 Kid Carsey -176 2 Herm Wehmeier -161 3 John Coleman -142 4 Bobby Witt -130 5 Mike Kekich -127 6 Bert Cunningham -122 7 Stump Wiedman -121 T8 Phil Ortega -118 T8 Jack Fisher -118 10 Bill Hart -116 Kid Carsey looks like a good candidate.

09-07-2002, 08:55 PM	#15
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	As noted by Ytown, most of the worst pitchers by this method would be 19th-century guys. Randy Lerch looks like a decent candidate. he had a couple of decent years but was mostly a .500 or worse pitcher with a very good phillies team

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