Greatest to Wear the Number: #21 - Page 2

TimmyB · 08-23-2002, 04:12 PM

Warren Spahn... with Clemens and Clemente at his heels.

Hard to beat a great baseball thinker and 20 wins a season, seemingly, forever.

KCBOOMER · 08-23-2002, 04:30 PM

Spahnie, but the oversight of Clemens is not good.

Max Power · 08-23-2002, 06:07 PM

For the last 4 years, Clemens has worn #22 - - that kinda takes him out of the 21-loop, no?

LeGrandOrange · 08-23-2002, 06:35 PM

It took awhile to think about it, but I took Clemente for a few reasons, one of them being that more players wear his number in tribute then anyone else. (Not scientifically proven, but it sure seems like you see a lot of #21's in tribute to Roberto) Paying tribute to someone numerically is a good sign of your greatness and certainly your influence. Of course, he had a ton of both.
Thus, he ends up with my difficult pick here...

padresfan19 · 08-23-2002, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Max Power
For the last 4 years, Clemens has worn #22 - - that kinda takes him out of the 21-loop, no?

Why? He wore 21 in Boston and Toronto, winning 5 Cy Youngs in that number. I don't think just because he wears 22 now that it disqualifies him from this discussion.

Max Power · 08-23-2002, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by padresfan19
Why? He wore 21 in Boston and Toronto, winning 5 Cy Youngs in that number. I don't think just because he wears 22 now that it disqualifies him from this discussion.

My point was that the youngest (and most recent) generation of fans (those around the ages 8-14) probably only know him as #22.

VNV Nation · 08-23-2002, 08:57 PM

Well, I voted for other because I think of him as #21. I hope he's not on the #22 poll because I have a personal favorite there...

JamesI · 08-23-2002, 09:08 PM

This is a close one. I went with Clemente, but Clemens, Spahn, Sosa are all possible.

sweaver · 08-23-2002, 10:37 PM

I have Clemens on my list at #22, but you are right that he should actually be here. A transcription mistake on my part. Feel free to write-in for Roger.

I will cast my vote for Clemente, because it is Roberto I think of when I see a uniform #21.

sweaver · 08-23-2002, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by poorme
we're talking numbers right? there has to have been some oddballs with high numbers. fisk is the only one that comes to mind. I'm sure i've seen 60 somewhere. someone else was 88. or was the BB??

We'll get there in time. The next summary will come after we cover the rest of the numbers. #1/8 to 20 was a pretty overwhelming group, and I thought it best to subdivide there.

JamesI · 08-23-2002, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rcartman28
I believe Albert Belle wore "88" when he played for Baltimore, but I think there was scrub infielder named Gonzalez or something like that who also wore that number for the Orioles......

Renee Gonzalez and Belle requested number 8 when they joined the Orioles. Obviously they were told no, someone named Ripken had it. Both took 88 then.

SmedIndy · 08-23-2002, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JamesI

Renee Gonzalez and Belle requested number 8 when they joined the Orioles. Obviously they were told no, someone named Ripken had it. Both took 88 then.

Why'd they even ask...

Back on topic. I took Clemente, just like Sweaver, and for the same reasons.

NCFella19 · 08-24-2002, 12:01 AM

Parents, tie your young son's right arm to his body. He MAY become a great lefty like Warren Spahn.

(Not likely, but he may.)

pwdennis · 08-24-2002, 09:47 AM

Spahn by a nose over Sosa and Clemens

either or both may pass Spahn shortly

Clemente 4th

Fuzzy Bear · 08-24-2002, 11:27 AM

I voted for Arky Vaughn. Yes, this is somewhat idiosyncratic, but Vaughn, I believe, had the highest PEAK value of any of the guys on the list, and I'm not taking anything away from Spahnie, Sammy, or the Rocket.

Vaughn was a big-hitting shortstop. His career was short, and was interrupted for an unusual reason (he retired in what was his prime over a dispute w/Leo the Lip), but his peak drove him to become the second greatest SS in history (according to Bill James in his newest Historical Abstract; I agree with the assessment).

I have a heart for big-hitting middle infielders. I think that they are generally underrated, and I think that the value of a SS with Vaughn's batting stats is greater than the other guys here (at their peaks, granted the others edge Vaughn on career value).

View Poll Results: Greatest to Wear the Number: #21
Roberto Clemente	5	17.24%
Burleigh Grimes	0	0%
George Kell	0	0%
Bob Lemon	0	0%
Joe Sewell	0	0%
Sammy Sosa	1	3.45%
Warren Spahn	14	48.28%
Dazzy Vance	0	0%
Arky Vaughn	3	10.34%
other (please state who in post)	6	20.69%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

08-23-2002, 04:30 PM	#17
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	Spahnie, but the oversight of Clemens is not good. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

08-23-2002, 06:07 PM	#18
Max Power NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: May 2002 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 5,548	For the last 4 years, Clemens has worn #22 - - that kinda takes him out of the 21-loop, no? __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator "They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go." That's why there's NetShrine.com

08-24-2002, 12:01 AM	#28
NCFella19 All-NetShrine Team Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 417	Parents, tie your young son's right arm to his body. He MAY become a great lefty like Warren Spahn. (Not likely, but he may.) __________________ "It's not the high price of stardom that bothers me, it's the high price of mediocrity." -- Bill Veeck

08-24-2002, 09:47 AM	#29
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	Spahn by a nose over Sosa and Clemens either or both may pass Spahn shortly Clemente 4th __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

08-23-2002, 04:12 PM	#16
TimmyB NetShrine's Magic 8-Ball Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Where the cops speak slow and the air is nice Posts: 2,591	Warren Spahn... with Clemens and Clemente at his heels. Hard to beat a great baseball thinker and 20 wins a season, seemingly, forever.

08-23-2002, 06:35 PM	#19
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	It took awhile to think about it, but I took Clemente for a few reasons, one of them being that more players wear his number in tribute then anyone else. (Not scientifically proven, but it sure seems like you see a lot of #21's in tribute to Roberto) Paying tribute to someone numerically is a good sign of your greatness and certainly your influence. Of course, he had a ton of both. Thus, he ends up with my difficult pick here...

08-23-2002, 08:57 PM	#22
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Well, I voted for other because I think of him as #21. I hope he's not on the #22 poll because I have a personal favorite there...

08-23-2002, 09:08 PM	#23
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	This is a close one. I went with Clemente, but Clemens, Spahn, Sosa are all possible.

08-23-2002, 10:37 PM	#24
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	I have Clemens on my list at #22, but you are right that he should actually be here. A transcription mistake on my part. Feel free to write-in for Roger. I will cast my vote for Clemente, because it is Roberto I think of when I see a uniform #21.

08-24-2002, 11:27 AM	#30
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	I voted for Arky Vaughn. Yes, this is somewhat idiosyncratic, but Vaughn, I believe, had the highest PEAK value of any of the guys on the list, and I'm not taking anything away from Spahnie, Sammy, or the Rocket. Vaughn was a big-hitting shortstop. His career was short, and was interrupted for an unusual reason (he retired in what was his prime over a dispute w/Leo the Lip), but his peak drove him to become the second greatest SS in history (according to Bill James in his newest Historical Abstract; I agree with the assessment). I have a heart for big-hitting middle infielders. I think that they are generally underrated, and I think that the value of a SS with Vaughn's batting stats is greater than the other guys here (at their peaks, granted the others edge Vaughn on career value).

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