Bernie Williams - great year, good player

[hmrsf]

At one time I was pretty excited about Bernie Williams. I was hoping he was coming to Boston. He instead stayed with NY after he drove up his worth.

I think players believe what their agents peadle.

Hunter>Damon>Williams>Everret>Dirt


BTW, I saw Chris complaining about Williams throwing arm. Damon has one weak chicken wing. The guy can fly, track down the ball, but bounce it in to second??????!?!?! I don't get it.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by nyyfanfrombirth
Chris and Steve, we can agree to disagree. I see Bernie play almost every day too, and IMO, he hustles.

He busts his tail on the groundouts, for sure. In the OF, well, I watch a lot of Yankee games, so, yes, I think we have to agree to disagree!

[ChrisCary]

Originally posted by hmrsf
I saw Chris complaining about Williams throwing arm.

It's not even his arm, if he just had a weak arm but made a throw but half the time he doesn't even make an attempt.
It's almost as if he thinks he's playing "flies up". He just lobs it into the shortstop or secondbaseman while the runner motors from second to home.
It boggles my mind.

I've been waiting a long time for this thread, he drives me up the wall!

[SmedIndy]

I'll give you Moises Alou and Chris Stynes for him....

[ChrisCary]

Originally posted by Max Power


He busts his tail on the groundouts, for sure.

That's another thing, he busts it on groundouts but if it goes through he's trotting as if all he has to do is tell Lee Mazzili something funny

[moose]

i agree with the basepath problems.

he hustles in the outfield, but doesn't play hard, if that makes any sense.

and he definitely gets the american league's "jim edmonds award" (best at making diving catches on balls that andruw and torii would be camping under, eating a croissant)


but hell, I love him -- he's a great hitter, and he truly has been a cornerstone of this "dynasty," if that's what it is.

[VNV Nation]

And Steve Sommers has never seen him make an out!

[satchel]

Interesting posts, all. hmrsf rightly points out that Bernie is arguably not even the best centerfielder in the AL right now. Both Damon and Hunter are younger as well.

As for the lollygagging, even as a huge Williams fan I have to admit that I am sometimes frustrated by his apparent lack of hustle. When I am feeling charitable towards him (most of the time) I argue that his incredibly long strides make it look like he's working less hard than he is. He is very fast, but as others have pointed out, lacks instincts.

Perhaps he should hit ahead of Giambi, rather than behind him.

[JamesI]

I think the Yankee lineup would be better with Bernie hitting 2nd, 3rd or 5th. I've never liked him hitting cleanup.

[qtlaw]

Admittedly this is from someone afar who has mostly seen him during the fall but Bernie seems to be a stud who has been an integral part of this current Yanks Dynasty. The guy is flat out mashing right now and you fans are complaining. He's going to hit at least .325 with over 110 rbis. I remember reading an SI interview with you a couple of years where he was playing his guitar and the theme seemed to be that he's one of those (stereotype) Latin players who play hard within their own definition of playing hard. In his mind he's just a serene guy who is playing hard. I do not see his one hop throws to SS/2B but I would be happy to give you Shinjo who looks like he's ready to hit that wiffle ball any second now.

Finally, I will say that Torre seems to have become a great manager who is old school and if you really believe that there's no way he puts up with Williams dogging it without some statement that such behavior is unacceptable. Moreover, the Yanks are supposed to police their own pretty well and I can't see Jeter or someone else letting this dog act play.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by qtlaw
Moreover, the Yanks are supposed to police their own pretty well and I can't see Jeter or someone else letting this dog act play.

Actually, there's a story in NYC that Bernie was late showing for Game 6 of the WS last year, and, reportedly, Jeter ripped him a new one over that.............

[spitball]

To me all this complaining about Bernie sounds like the same crap Garret Anderson has to put up with. To me Bernie is just a smooth player. By that I mean graceful. Nothing he does looks like he's putting out any effort.
How can anybody complain about a guy who lays everyday , hits.300 plus, and drives in 100 plus every year.
With Bernie as with Garret or Manny , you get what you get and that ain't bad.

[VNV Nation]

New York and Philadelphia are the only towns in which Bernie Williams would receive more criticism than praise.

[Fuzzy Bear]

What does a guy have to do to be a HOF candidate?

At this writing, Bernie has a .308 lifetime average with an OBP over .390. He has 223 jacks and 1,796 career hits at this writing.
He's at 111.5 in the HOF monitor, and at 35.5 in HOF standards (before this season). The monitor score is just above the middle of the gray area, and the standards score is at the level of the lower middle HOF. Bernie attaining 35.5% of HOF standards (avg. HOFer attains 50%) at this stage of his career at age 33 is excellent.

Bernie Williams has been the best CF in the AL since Griffey left, and he's the best right now. Maybe not the best fielder (although he has 4 Gold Gloves), but the best CF. I don't know why anyone outside of Red Sox Nation would want Damon over Bernie. I don't know why anyone would want Torii Hunter; yes, he's having a spectacular year, but don't the Twins have more than their share of players who are inconsistent from year to year?

The criticisms of Bernie in this thread sound like those of guys who would complain about Cameron Diaz because she went on vacation and gained 4 pounds. Bernie is a star, and a guy who is doing what HOFers do. The criticisms remind me of people who complain that their spouses don't do the little things. Yes, there are a lot of guys I know who would be near perfect if they sent flowers once a month, spontaneously, and there are lots of women I can think of who would be near perfect if they could cook more exotic cuisines. Yes, there are ballplayers who win ugly at times. There are also ballplayers, like Nolan, the Overrated, who lose spectacularly and magnificently. Do I need to post a poll, or what.

Bernie Williams is a guy who has, over time, won me over. He's grown steadily, like Dwight Evans, only better, and is clearly a viable HOF candidate. There are more than one HOF outfielder who didn't do in an entire career what Bernie Williams has done to date, granting that the previous statement alone isn't a ticket to Cooperstown, in and of itself. I am honestly surprised to see the criticism of Bernie at the level it is in this post (maybe I'm missing something). I don't think it's deserved. Bernie is the best CF in the AL right now, and has been since 2000. He's on a HOF course, and he's a great player; a broad-based player that often gets jilted in award and HOF voting (although his .308 BA will help prevent some of that).

Bernie is my fav player, and I agree that he is a slacker at times, and is not really a , but he does his job at the plate.

Read this today in
Baseball Weekly :

Bernie has more homers than Donnie, more hits than Lazzeri, and more doubles than Mantle