Six is not nearly enough

jpalexa · 08-09-2001, 05:57 PM

Yankees' pitcher suspended for six games
August 9, 2001

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) -- New York Yankees pitcher Ted Lilly was suspended for six games Thursday for hitting Anaheim's Scott Spiezio in the helmet with a pitch last weekend.

Lilly's penalty was imposed by Frank Robinson, baseball's head disciplinarian. The suspension was to start Thursday night when the Yankees played the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

Lilly hit Spiezio with his first pitch in the sixth inning Sunday at Yankee Stadium. As both teams were warned, Lilly was pulled by Yankees' manager Joe Torre, and the rookie pitcher received hearty congratulations from teammates in the dugout.

An inning earlier, Anaheim's Ramon Ortiz hit Derek Jeter in the hand with a pitch.

------------------------------------------

Anybody that congratulates someone else for purposely beaning a player is off my list. Shame on those Yankees players...starting with Ted Lilly.

BuzzBuzzard · 08-09-2001, 06:06 PM

I am actually surprised he got that many considering he was not ejected from the game. Baseball needs to find a way to suspend pitchers an equivalent number of starts, not games.

NetShrine · 08-09-2001, 06:17 PM

Clemens was fined big time on the Piazza bat thing - but, he was never ejected from the game either.

Robby doesn't care what the umps think - he does what he wants.

On the Lilly thing, which I saw on TV as it happened, I think his big mistake was throwing above the shoulders. I do not feel he was unjust in throwing inside to Spiezio.

Ironically, as I was watching the Yankee game that day, I thought to myself, as Jeter was up - - hmmm, he already has a 1B and a 2B, maybe he can get the cycle? But, he quickly got himself OK, diving across the plate to foul off an outside pitch. The next pitch nailed him. Right away, I thought, that's on purpose (!), they're pissed that he's diving out on the plate and having his way.

The injury looked very scary for Jeter. Know what? Even as a diehard Yankee fan, I was not mad at the Angels or Ortiz. He did what a pitcher should do in that place - move the SOB off the plate. Jeter reacted poorly in failing to get out of the way. (Much the same as Piazza in the Clemens thing, IMHO.)

Related, the way Clemens moves off hitters, I think the Yankees should not find this approach shocking either. Still, that said, in baseball, it is an eye for an eye, - - so, Lilly really had no choice (as did the Met pitcher, Rusch? that hit a Yankee, Martinez?, after Piazza got clocked). Again, his placement was bad.

Lilly will probably get it reduced - like Bartolo Colon recently did, and will end up just being pushed back a day in the rotation. Happens all the time.

BuzzBuzzard · 08-09-2001, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NetShrine
On the Lilly thing, which I saw on TV as it happened, I think his big mistake was throwing above the shoulders. I do not feel he was unjust in throwing inside to Spiezio.

Dude - stop tap dancing around the issue. Lilly wasn't throwing inside, he was throwing at. Call a spade a spade.

Quote:

Originally posted by NetShrine
Jeter reacted poorly in failing to get out of the way. (Much the same as Piazza in the Clemens thing, IMHO.)

At some point you are going to come to your senses and realize Piazza could not have gotten out of the way.

08-09-2001, 06:42 PM

i agree with you thast he shouldn't of hit him in the head, but he should of hit him....

Duque · 08-09-2001, 06:55 PM

Unrelated topic, but to Mr. Buzzard - what would you do should Ventura be sent to the Yankees through waivers, as was suggested in the New York Post?

Back to Lilly - this is in line with what Robinson's office has done in regards to previous incidents. I always find it a little odd that when a pitcher gets suspended for 6 games, he really only misses one (his one start), but a hitter has to miss all 6 games.

BuzzBuzzard · 08-09-2001, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Duque
Unrelated topic, but to Mr. Buzzard - what would you do should Ventura be sent to the Yankees through waivers, as was suggested in the New York Post?

I am not familiar with the Post article, but are you talking the Yanks just claim Ventura and the Mets don't pull him back or the Mets pull him back and work out a trade. Clearly, I could not stomach the first option. I really like Ventura and would not be happy to see him go, but two years of poor performance and a big contract...you have to consider the options. Mets have a lot of holes for next year and all else being equal, I'd rather keep him, if for defense alone, and address the bigger issues (LF, 1B, ss(?)) Tell me what the Post said and I'll either give a thumbs up or down.

The only reason I question Ordonez at this point is that he has .302 since the break. Maybe Engle is getting through.

BuzzBuzzard · 08-09-2001, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Duque
I always find it a little odd that when a pitcher gets suspended for 6 games, he really only misses one (his one start), but a hitter has to miss all 6 games.

That was exactly my point. It is not equitable.

Duque · 08-09-2001, 08:10 PM

Here's the link to the piece about Ventura:

http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/80.htm

I'm assuming there'd be some sort of trade worked out. More than likely, though, the article's just speculation.

BuzzBuzzard · 08-09-2001, 08:52 PM

If the deal was right, I would do it, but with heavy heart.

NetShrine · 08-09-2001, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
That was exactly my point. It is not equitable.

What does a hitter get when he charges the mound? Two or three games? That's 1/81th or 1/54th of the schedule. It's really small - just the same as pushing a pitcher back a day, no?

NetShrine · 08-09-2001, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard

Dude - stop tap dancing around the issue. Lilly wasn't throwing inside, he was throwing at. Call a spade a spade.

At some point you are going to come to your senses and realize Piazza could not have gotten out of the way.

a. Re-read the thread. I agreed that he was throwing at him - my point was that he should have thrown at him below the shoulders.

b. Watch the replay next time you see it. Piazza stood there like a deer in headlights. That's the problem - - hitters don't know how to react to a pitch inside anymore. I see lots of replays from the 60's and 70's where pitchers zipped one right at the noggin or under the chin - and the batters, big guys like Frank Robinson, got down, QUICK - 'cause they were not ignorant to the fact that the pitcher has a right to one side of the plate.

jpalexa · 08-09-2001, 11:28 PM

I don't have a problem with a pitcher "staking his territory" -- the inside half of the plate is a vital part of the pitching game.

I am finding that my issue is with the pitcher intentionally trying to hit a batter. Maybe there is a fine line between "trying to move a batter off the plate" and "sticking one in the ribs" ("in the ear" is NEVER called for) -- and I don't know how you *prove* intent, but the older I get, the less I like pitchers hitting batters *anywhere* on purpose. Call me a fuddy duddy.

I agree with NetShrine's interesting observation: batters (in general) do not seem to know how to get out of the way of the inside pitch...but nor do pitchers (generally) know *how* to pitch inside aggressively and effectively.

BuzzBuzzard · 08-10-2001, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NetShrine
a. Re-read the thread. I agreed that he was throwing at him - my point was that he should have thrown at him below the shoulders.

On the Lilly thing, which I saw on TV as it happened, I think his big mistake was throwing above the shoulders. I do not feel he was unjust in throwing inside to Spiezio.

Taken from your earlier post. Since when does 'throwing at' and 'throwing inside' mean the same thing?

BuzzBuzzard · 08-10-2001, 08:57 AM

Apparently Torre was pretty upset at the suspension. According to a piece in today's Times, Robinson hung up on Torre because of the language Joe was using.

08-09-2001, 05:57 PM	#1
jpalexa Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 397	Six is not nearly enough Yankees' pitcher suspended for six games August 9, 2001 ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) -- New York Yankees pitcher Ted Lilly was suspended for six games Thursday for hitting Anaheim's Scott Spiezio in the helmet with a pitch last weekend. Lilly's penalty was imposed by Frank Robinson, baseball's head disciplinarian. The suspension was to start Thursday night when the Yankees played the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. Lilly hit Spiezio with his first pitch in the sixth inning Sunday at Yankee Stadium. As both teams were warned, Lilly was pulled by Yankees' manager Joe Torre, and the rookie pitcher received hearty congratulations from teammates in the dugout. An inning earlier, Anaheim's Ramon Ortiz hit Derek Jeter in the hand with a pitch. ------------------------------------------ Anybody that congratulates someone else for purposely beaning a player is off my list. Shame on those Yankees players...starting with Ted Lilly.

08-09-2001, 06:06 PM	#2
BuzzBuzzard NetShrine's Conscience Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The bowels of Shea Posts: 3,062	I am actually surprised he got that many considering he was not ejected from the game. Baseball needs to find a way to suspend pitchers an equivalent number of starts, not games. __________________ Buzzard You Gotta Believe

08-09-2001, 08:52 PM	#10
BuzzBuzzard NetShrine's Conscience Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The bowels of Shea Posts: 3,062	If the deal was right, I would do it, but with heavy heart. __________________ Buzzard You Gotta Believe

08-10-2001, 08:57 AM	#15
BuzzBuzzard NetShrine's Conscience Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The bowels of Shea Posts: 3,062	Apparently Torre was pretty upset at the suspension. According to a piece in today's Times, Robinson hung up on Torre because of the language Joe was using. __________________ Buzzard You Gotta Believe

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08-09-2001, 06:17 PM	#3
NetShrine Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 4,617	Clemens was fined big time on the Piazza bat thing - but, he was never ejected from the game either. Robby doesn't care what the umps think - he does what he wants. On the Lilly thing, which I saw on TV as it happened, I think his big mistake was throwing above the shoulders. I do not feel he was unjust in throwing inside to Spiezio. Ironically, as I was watching the Yankee game that day, I thought to myself, as Jeter was up - - hmmm, he already has a 1B and a 2B, maybe he can get the cycle? But, he quickly got himself OK, diving across the plate to foul off an outside pitch. The next pitch nailed him. Right away, I thought, that's on purpose (!), they're pissed that he's diving out on the plate and having his way. The injury looked very scary for Jeter. Know what? Even as a diehard Yankee fan, I was not mad at the Angels or Ortiz. He did what a pitcher should do in that place - move the SOB off the plate. Jeter reacted poorly in failing to get out of the way. (Much the same as Piazza in the Clemens thing, IMHO.) Related, the way Clemens moves off hitters, I think the Yankees should not find this approach shocking either. Still, that said, in baseball, it is an eye for an eye, - - so, Lilly really had no choice (as did the Met pitcher, Rusch? that hit a Yankee, Martinez?, after Piazza got clocked). Again, his placement was bad. Lilly will probably get it reduced - like Bartolo Colon recently did, and will end up just being pushed back a day in the rotation. Happens all the time.

08-09-2001, 06:42 PM	#5
yankeesrule2000 Posts: n/a	i agree with you thast he shouldn't of hit him in the head, but he should of hit him....

08-09-2001, 06:55 PM	#6
Duque NetShrine's Desperado Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Southern CA Posts: 2,638	Unrelated topic, but to Mr. Buzzard - what would you do should Ventura be sent to the Yankees through waivers, as was suggested in the New York Post? Back to Lilly - this is in line with what Robinson's office has done in regards to previous incidents. I always find it a little odd that when a pitcher gets suspended for 6 games, he really only misses one (his one start), but a hitter has to miss all 6 games.

08-09-2001, 08:10 PM	#9
Duque NetShrine's Desperado Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Southern CA Posts: 2,638	Here's the link to the piece about Ventura: http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/80.htm I'm assuming there'd be some sort of trade worked out. More than likely, though, the article's just speculation.

08-09-2001, 11:28 PM	#13
jpalexa Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 397	I don't have a problem with a pitcher "staking his territory" -- the inside half of the plate is a vital part of the pitching game. I am finding that my issue is with the pitcher intentionally trying to hit a batter. Maybe there is a fine line between "trying to move a batter off the plate" and "sticking one in the ribs" ("in the ear" is NEVER called for) -- and I don't know how you prove intent, but the older I get, the less I like pitchers hitting batters anywhere on purpose. Call me a fuddy duddy. I agree with NetShrine's interesting observation: batters (in general) do not seem to know how to get out of the way of the inside pitch...but nor do pitchers (generally) know how to pitch inside aggressively and effectively.

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