Raines to retire, says strike will hurt game

VNV Nation · 08-19-2002, 03:09 AM

posting the whole thing since it's short:

Sunday, August 18

Raines says he won't play after this season

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ESPN.com news services

Florida Marlins outfielder Tim Raines told The Miami Herald he will retire at the end of the season, whether it's Aug. 29 or Sept. 29, depending on the labor situation.

"This is my last year, regardless," Raines told the Herald. "If I have to go out like this, with a strike, so be it."

Asked about possibly going out earlier than expected, Raines told the newspaper: "That's all right. I'm still behind the union and whatever it does."

Raines said, however, he isn't sure baseball can survive another strike.

"I think if (a strike) happens this time, I don't think baseball will ever recover," he said. "I think it would definitely hurt the game."

VNV Nation · 08-19-2002, 03:23 AM

Raines' career stats:

Total -- 2479 8850 1562 2600 430 113 170 978 1327 960 808 146 .294 .386 .426 .812

If I were voting, Tim Raines would be a first-ballot Hall of Famer. He was absolutely devastating, every bit the player Rickey was, and probably better, from 1981-1987.

While Rickey of course went on to have a better career, I always liked Raines better, as a player and a person.

When he was busted for cocaine, he didn't cry crocodile tears or get standing ovations, he just repented, reformed and became a model citizen.

When Buck Rodgers decided to bat Raines third because he needed to break up the righties in the order, he didn't complain about it even though he was obviously better suited to leading off. It seemed to throw him off his game for a few years, too.

When he went to the American League, he declined a personal challenge from Rickey for SB supremacy. Instead, he just went about his job as devastating leadoff hitter and helped the Sox to a division title in 1994.

He accepted his job with the Yankees as a bit player, even though he could obviously still play, putting up .380-.400 OBPs to help the Yanks win two World Series.

VNV Nation · 08-19-2002, 03:30 AM

Among players who were primarily leadoff hitters, Raines is seventh all-time in runs scored:

Rickey 2,280
Rose 2,165
Molitor 1,782
Keeler 1,719
Hamilton 1,690
Brock 1,610
Raines 1,562
Carey 1,545
Boggs 1,513
Latham 1,478

moose · 08-19-2002, 07:13 AM

i agree wholeheartedly - 1st ballot, no question.

Max Power · 08-19-2002, 07:16 AM

Cooperstown has a thing about guys being sure they are "done" - they don't want a HOF guy still active - - basically, Lasorda had to swear he was retired to get in - - this could hurt Raines - - they may make him wait until he's 50 to get in.

SmedIndy · 08-19-2002, 09:54 AM

Raines will be a good case to see if the newer breed of BBWAA "gets it".

KCBOOMER · 08-19-2002, 09:59 AM

I think Raines is going to be a tough sell to the BBWA. He just quietly went about his business which is not good for a singles hitter. People are more likely to remember his drug bust than his career.

His best hope is the boys over at ESPN take him under their wing and publicize him as one of the great lead-off hitters. Six of his ten best comps are HoFers.

He hasn't had 70 at bats this year so he should be able convince folks he's done.

VNV Nation · 08-19-2002, 12:42 PM

Ya think? 2,600 hits, almost 1,600 runs, 800 steals....these are pretty obvious credentials.

JamesI · 08-19-2002, 12:52 PM

While I think Raines belongs in the hall, and will get in eventually, I think it will take him a few ballots before he finally gets in the way Gary Carter has.

KCBOOMER · 08-19-2002, 01:04 PM

Yes, I do think he will have trouble. Harold Baines has 2800+ hits, 1600+ rbi's, 1300 runs, a .356 OBA, and a .820 OPS and he isn't going to get a whiff of the HoFeither by BBWA or NetShrine. Sure there is a big difference in RCAA but who the hell in the BBWA knows what that is? Baines 1600 rbi's are the most by a non-HoFer.

Raines' 800 Sb is a major difference in him and Baines but I don;t know how compelling the voters (either BBWA or NetShrine) will find it.

Fuzzy Bear · 08-19-2002, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by moose
i agree wholeheartedly - 1st ballot, no question.

Ditto. Hope the HOF voters see it that way!

Unfortunately for Rock, the knotheads that vote from the BBWAA can't find the good sense to enshrine Gary Carter.

They BOTH belong!

Fuzzy Bear · 08-19-2002, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KCBOOMER
People are more likely to remember his drug bust than his career.

Of all the players with publicized drug problems, Raines appears to have stayed clean with little or no fanfare. In his case, the image of Tim Raines, druggie, has faded.

It also helps, in Raines' case, that his drug problem doesn't appear to have impacted his career. The reason Dave Parker won't beat the drug rap is that his problem had an obvious impact on his career that lasted several seasons. Look at Raines' stats, and you don't see that period of time sticking out at you like a sore thiumb.

SmedIndy · 08-19-2002, 10:15 PM

Boom-

They didn't hold Molitor's drug issue against him, why the double standard with Raines?

Ytown Tribe fan · 08-20-2002, 01:34 PM

Raines was personally hurt twice by strikes.

In 1981, Raines was having a great rookie season for the Expos (He would have won except for some guy named Fernando), and they won the "second half" of the season before losing to the Dodgers in the dumb playoff system they had that year.

In '94, Raines was having a decent season for the White Sox, who were locked in a great battle with the Tribe for the AL-Central before the season was cancelled.

First ballot no-doubter.

Craig S. · 08-20-2002, 02:24 PM

Would I like to see him in on the first ballot? Yes.

Will he get in on the first ballot? I have my doubts.

08-19-2002, 03:09 AM	#1
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Raines to retire, says strike will hurt game posting the whole thing since it's short: Sunday, August 18 Raines says he won't play after this season -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ESPN.com news services Florida Marlins outfielder Tim Raines told The Miami Herald he will retire at the end of the season, whether it's Aug. 29 or Sept. 29, depending on the labor situation. "This is my last year, regardless," Raines told the Herald. "If I have to go out like this, with a strike, so be it." Asked about possibly going out earlier than expected, Raines told the newspaper: "That's all right. I'm still behind the union and whatever it does." Raines said, however, he isn't sure baseball can survive another strike. "I think if (a strike) happens this time, I don't think baseball will ever recover," he said. "I think it would definitely hurt the game."

08-19-2002, 07:16 AM	#5
Max Power NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: May 2002 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 5,548	Cooperstown has a thing about guys being sure they are "done" - they don't want a HOF guy still active - - basically, Lasorda had to swear he was retired to get in - - this could hurt Raines - - they may make him wait until he's 50 to get in. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator "They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go." That's why there's NetShrine.com

08-19-2002, 09:59 AM	#7
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	I think Raines is going to be a tough sell to the BBWA. He just quietly went about his business which is not good for a singles hitter. People are more likely to remember his drug bust than his career. His best hope is the boys over at ESPN take him under their wing and publicize him as one of the great lead-off hitters. Six of his ten best comps are HoFers. He hasn't had 70 at bats this year so he should be able convince folks he's done. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

08-19-2002, 01:04 PM	#10
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	Yes, I do think he will have trouble. Harold Baines has 2800+ hits, 1600+ rbi's, 1300 runs, a .356 OBA, and a .820 OPS and he isn't going to get a whiff of the HoFeither by BBWA or NetShrine. Sure there is a big difference in RCAA but who the hell in the BBWA knows what that is? Baines 1600 rbi's are the most by a non-HoFer. Raines' 800 Sb is a major difference in him and Baines but I don;t know how compelling the voters (either BBWA or NetShrine) will find it. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

08-19-2002, 03:23 AM	#2
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Raines' career stats: Total -- 2479 8850 1562 2600 430 113 170 978 1327 960 808 146 .294 .386 .426 .812 If I were voting, Tim Raines would be a first-ballot Hall of Famer. He was absolutely devastating, every bit the player Rickey was, and probably better, from 1981-1987. While Rickey of course went on to have a better career, I always liked Raines better, as a player and a person. When he was busted for cocaine, he didn't cry crocodile tears or get standing ovations, he just repented, reformed and became a model citizen. When Buck Rodgers decided to bat Raines third because he needed to break up the righties in the order, he didn't complain about it even though he was obviously better suited to leading off. It seemed to throw him off his game for a few years, too. When he went to the American League, he declined a personal challenge from Rickey for SB supremacy. Instead, he just went about his job as devastating leadoff hitter and helped the Sox to a division title in 1994. He accepted his job with the Yankees as a bit player, even though he could obviously still play, putting up .380-.400 OBPs to help the Yanks win two World Series.

08-19-2002, 03:30 AM	#3
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Among players who were primarily leadoff hitters, Raines is seventh all-time in runs scored: Rickey 2,280 Rose 2,165 Molitor 1,782 Keeler 1,719 Hamilton 1,690 Brock 1,610 Raines 1,562 Carey 1,545 Boggs 1,513 Latham 1,478

08-19-2002, 07:13 AM	#4
moose Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Socs Posts: 3,400	i agree wholeheartedly - 1st ballot, no question.

08-19-2002, 09:54 AM	#6
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Raines will be a good case to see if the newer breed of BBWAA "gets it".

08-19-2002, 12:42 PM	#8
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Ya think? 2,600 hits, almost 1,600 runs, 800 steals....these are pretty obvious credentials.

08-19-2002, 12:52 PM	#9
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	While I think Raines belongs in the hall, and will get in eventually, I think it will take him a few ballots before he finally gets in the way Gary Carter has.

08-19-2002, 10:15 PM	#13
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Boom- They didn't hold Molitor's drug issue against him, why the double standard with Raines?

08-20-2002, 01:34 PM	#14
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Raines was personally hurt twice by strikes. In 1981, Raines was having a great rookie season for the Expos (He would have won except for some guy named Fernando), and they won the "second half" of the season before losing to the Dodgers in the dumb playoff system they had that year. In '94, Raines was having a decent season for the White Sox, who were locked in a great battle with the Tribe for the AL-Central before the season was cancelled. First ballot no-doubter.

08-20-2002, 02:24 PM	#15
Craig S. Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 6,330	Would I like to see him in on the first ballot? Yes. Will he get in on the first ballot? I have my doubts.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Game Two of Doubleheader	OrieGirl	Under The Knife Reports	0	08-03-2002 11:30 PM
strike zone, power pitchers and leadoff guys	Baudib	2002 Hot Baseball Chatter Archives	28	02-05-2002 02:29 PM
Schilling may not start Game 7 after all	NetShrine	2001 Hot Baseball Chatter Archives	5	11-03-2001 11:43 PM
Around the majors reports--Oct 22	nyy26wc	Around The Majors Reports	4	10-27-2001 11:51 AM