792

Ytown Tribe fan · 08-13-2002, 03:29 PM

Which player, if any, will break the all-time doubles record held by Tris Speaker (a much unappreciated record)?

SmedIndy · 08-13-2002, 03:43 PM

When they start making parks Comerica size or larger, maybe, but not now.

JamesI · 08-13-2002, 04:46 PM

Not gonna happen. Ever. 600 is hard enough nowadays.

KCBOOMER · 08-13-2002, 04:51 PM

The game and parks have changed. Not going to happen without some changes.

Ytown Tribe fan · 08-13-2002, 06:07 PM

It's not about the parks. Speaker played in Fenway and old Cleveland Municipal. He started in the dead ball era and finished in the Babe Ruth era.

We're in the middle of a fine hitters era and there are plenty of good hitters parks. Remember, we're not talking about triples here, but doubles. Hitting a lot of doubles means hitting the ball hard and running to second. You don't need tricky outfield corners for doubles -- only for triples.

In 1923, when Babe Ruth had perhaps the greatest year ever for a hitter, Speaker batted .380, with 214 hits, 59 doubles, 11 triples and 17 homers. He had 26 outfield assists that year, too. He was 35. Three years later, at the age of 38, Tris had 52 doubles and 20 outfield assists.

The thing about a double is this: you can't stand in the batters box and admire it. You have to hit the ball hard and run hard. Any of today's players could do that 50 times a year if they really wanted to. Larry Walker could do that in his sleep. If he wanted to.

Yeah, I'm an old fogey. I know that a homer is valuable - I'm not that stupid yet. But I'd rather watch a player with talent hustle from beginning to end -- of his game and his career.

Hustle. Look at the list of career doubles leaders. Rounding out the top 5 are George Brett, Ty Cobb, Stan Musial, and Pete Rose. Speaker had more than any of them.

Max Power · 08-13-2002, 06:14 PM

If Todd Helton keeps banging out 50 a year, he'll get it by the time he's 37.

pwdennis · 08-13-2002, 06:25 PM

Let' s just say it is unlikely.

What sometimes happens is that a young hitter who hits a lot of doubles increases his power some and turns some of his doubles into home runs. Carl Yastrzemski is a good example of this

padresfan19 · 08-13-2002, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwdennis
Let' s just say it is unlikely.

What sometimes happens is that a young hitter who hits a lot of doubles increases his power some and turns some of his doubles into home runs. Carl Yastrzemski is a good example of this

Take a look at Alex Rodriguez. He hit 54 doubles in his first full season in '96, then 40 in '97, but a lot of those doubles have turned into home runs in the last 5 years.

VNV Nation · 08-13-2002, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ytown Tribe fan
It's not about the parks. Speaker played in Fenway and old Cleveland Municipal. He started in the dead ball era and finished in the Babe Ruth era.

It does have a lot to do with the parks. Fenway is certainly a great doubles park. Speaker played in League Park, which was one of the greatest doubles parks of all time and Cleveland led the league in doubles almost every year. Sportsman's was a great doubles parks and most of the other parks were huge, at least to center.

TGwynn19 · 08-13-2002, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ytown Tribe fan

Any of today's players could do that 50 times a year if they really wanted to. Larry Walker could do that in his sleep. If he wanted to.

Yep, Neifi Perez and Rey Ordonez could do this easily. Larry Walker is just a bum.

Ytown Tribe fan · 08-13-2002, 09:27 PM

As a matter of fact, they could.

Do you mean to tell me that Neifi and Rey can't hit the ball hard and run like hell 50 times a season? Maybe it would be a double, maybe not -- but they could try. That's what I'm talking about. Those two should be batting .290 from infield singles alone. They should be thinking "two" on every ball in the gap.

Walker and Helton are in the perfect place and the perfect time to hit 50 doubles a season, every season.

NCFella19 · 08-13-2002, 09:45 PM

I just don't think that many of today's players think "double" when they smoke one into the OF. Wouldn't want to pull a hammy and lose out on lucrative contract money because they're on the DL from "running too hard."

Speaker's name will be on the top of this list for a long long time.

moose · 08-13-2002, 11:39 PM

as of the end of last year, bill james' favorite toy gives helton a 13.7% chance of getting 792 doubles.

if you use this year's projection of 45 doubles, it goes down to 9.7%

moose · 08-13-2002, 11:41 PM

btw, dont forget how many doubles are lost to the showboating that accompanies well-hit balls! (the stop and watch it move)

Skip · 08-14-2002, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by moose
btw, dont forget how many doubles are lost to the showboating that accompanies well-hit balls! (the stop and watch it move)

I believe my feelings about this particular bit of <bleep> are well documented.

View Poll Results: Who will break the all-time doubles record
No one	12	85.71%
other	2	14.29%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

08-13-2002, 03:29 PM	#1
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	792 Which player, if any, will break the all-time doubles record held by Tris Speaker (a much unappreciated record)?

08-13-2002, 04:51 PM	#4
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	The game and parks have changed. Not going to happen without some changes. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

08-13-2002, 06:07 PM	#5
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	It's not about the parks. Speaker played in Fenway and old Cleveland Municipal. He started in the dead ball era and finished in the Babe Ruth era. We're in the middle of a fine hitters era and there are plenty of good hitters parks. Remember, we're not talking about triples here, but doubles. Hitting a lot of doubles means hitting the ball hard and running to second. You don't need tricky outfield corners for doubles -- only for triples. In 1923, when Babe Ruth had perhaps the greatest year ever for a hitter, Speaker batted .380, with 214 hits, 59 doubles, 11 triples and 17 homers. He had 26 outfield assists that year, too. He was 35. Three years later, at the age of 38, Tris had 52 doubles and 20 outfield assists. The thing about a double is this: you can't stand in the batters box and admire it. You have to hit the ball hard and run hard. Any of today's players could do that 50 times a year if they really wanted to. Larry Walker could do that in his sleep. If he wanted to. Yeah, I'm an old fogey. I know that a homer is valuable - I'm not that stupid yet. But I'd rather watch a player with talent hustle from beginning to end -- of his game and his career. Hustle. Look at the list of career doubles leaders. Rounding out the top 5 are George Brett, Ty Cobb, Stan Musial, and Pete Rose. Speaker had more than any of them. Last edited by Ytown Tribe fan : 08-13-2002 at 06:16 PM.

08-13-2002, 06:14 PM	#6
Max Power NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: May 2002 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 5,548	If Todd Helton keeps banging out 50 a year, he'll get it by the time he's 37. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator "They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go." That's why there's NetShrine.com

08-13-2002, 03:43 PM	#2
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	When they start making parks Comerica size or larger, maybe, but not now.

08-13-2002, 04:46 PM	#3
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	Not gonna happen. Ever. 600 is hard enough nowadays.

08-13-2002, 06:25 PM	#7
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	Let' s just say it is unlikely. What sometimes happens is that a young hitter who hits a lot of doubles increases his power some and turns some of his doubles into home runs. Carl Yastrzemski is a good example of this __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

08-13-2002, 09:27 PM	#11
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	As a matter of fact, they could. Do you mean to tell me that Neifi and Rey can't hit the ball hard and run like hell 50 times a season? Maybe it would be a double, maybe not -- but they could try. That's what I'm talking about. Those two should be batting .290 from infield singles alone. They should be thinking "two" on every ball in the gap. Walker and Helton are in the perfect place and the perfect time to hit 50 doubles a season, every season.

08-13-2002, 09:45 PM	#12
NCFella19 All-NetShrine Team Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 417	I just don't think that many of today's players think "double" when they smoke one into the OF. Wouldn't want to pull a hammy and lose out on lucrative contract money because they're on the DL from "running too hard." Speaker's name will be on the top of this list for a long long time. __________________ "It's not the high price of stardom that bothers me, it's the high price of mediocrity." -- Bill Veeck

08-13-2002, 11:39 PM	#13
moose Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Socs Posts: 3,400	as of the end of last year, bill james' favorite toy gives helton a 13.7% chance of getting 792 doubles. if you use this year's projection of 45 doubles, it goes down to 9.7%

08-13-2002, 11:41 PM	#14
moose Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Socs Posts: 3,400	btw, dont forget how many doubles are lost to the showboating that accompanies well-hit balls! (the stop and watch it move)

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