Are you ready for some football? Greatest QBs

VNV Nation · 08-01-2002, 07:11 PM

Just to get in training camp mode, let's debate the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history:

1. John Elway
He's far from a consensus pick, but Elway has a good argument against almost any other great quarterback. He trails Marino, and only Marino, in most career counting stats, such as yardage and touchdowns, but he was far more mobile than Dan, and went to five Super Bowls, instead of one, and won two of them.
Compared to Montana, he had a much, much stronger arm, and for most of his career, he didn't play in a system designed to produce gaudy QB stats.
Montana and Staubach were renowned for their comeback ability, but of course, no one was ever better at this than Elway, with 47 career wins when trailing in the fourth quarter, plus The Drive in the AFC Championship game.

2. Joe Montana
My head wants me to say Steve Young was a better player than Montana, and maybe he was, but Montana's credentials are too good. Singlehandedly carried the Niners to a championship in '82.

3. Roger Staubach
His career was delayed by military obligation, and he retired early. In between, he played in four Super Bowls and seven NFC championships, was the No. 1 or No. 2 rated passer just about every season he played.

4. Dan Marino
Holds all the records.

5. Johnny Unitas

Gosfgiants · 08-01-2002, 07:15 PM

I can't really argue with your choices. Those are the greats at the QB position. I'd probably add Bradshaw into that list as well. He made the thows when he had to. I think that Brett Favre's name will probably require inclusion in this list once he's done playing.

poorme · 08-01-2002, 07:45 PM

I'd take Favre.

moose · 08-01-2002, 09:06 PM

i am (a) not a green bay fan, and (b) not particularly a favre fan...

...but i'm appalled at favre not being there. I know his career isn't over and all, but his #s until now could stand on their own.

moose · 08-01-2002, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VNV Nation
Montana and Staubach were renowned for their comeback ability, but of course, no one was ever better at this than Elway, with 47 career wins when trailing in the fourth quarter, plus The Drive in the AFC Championship game.

i think comebacks are absolutely worth something - i believe that confidence in the huddle and earning a teammate's BELIEF that you can drive down and win the game is important.

that said, in some cases saying "elway came back to win in the 4th quarter!!!" is like saying "the yankees came back to win in the 9th!!!!"

by that i mean that they could have scored the runs earlier, but didnt.

TGwynn19 · 08-01-2002, 09:12 PM

1) Joe Montana If it needed being done, it was done.

2) Dan Marino Give him Walter Payton as a teammate and this debate is OVER.

3) Fran Tarkenton Was a 2002 version of a QB in the 1970's

4) John Elway Probably had the most talent around him longer than any QB in history. But, damn he was good.

5) Warren Moon 1,002,973 yards passing (including CFL )

LeGrandOrange · 08-01-2002, 09:33 PM

Warren Moon was a revolutionary. If there's no Warren Moon, there would be fewer athletic quarterbacks in the NFL. The so-called "black quarterback" was made popular by Randall Cunningham, being the evolutionary freak he was, but Moon made it happen. He wasn't the first, but he was the best one, he was the most "fundamentally sound". Cunningham WAS better, but not as long as Moon was.

Gwynn's big 5 is my big 5, not necessarily in the same order, and it's going to take a lot for that to be changed. Favre is doing enough to get there...I'll say that.

VNV Nation · 08-02-2002, 12:10 AM

Moose:

Absolutely, Brett Favre is a great, great QB. But he played at the same time as Elway, Young, Marino, Montana....He certainly belongs in that group, but I can't see that he's any better than any of them. I also can't believe that all of the best quarterbacks in history played after 1980, so I felt compelled to put Johnny U. and Staubach there. If anything, guys like Otto Graham, Y.A. Tittle, Namath and Tarkenton deserve consideration before Favre. Favre makes the top 10 though.

As for the comebacks, it's really a different case in football than in baseball. For one thing, I believe Elway was hampered for years playing under Dan Reeves' system -- Reeves is/was a great coach, but he's not an offensive genius. Also, the last two minutes of a game is really where all of Elway's talents shone: you'd have to just turn the reins over to him and he would somehow get it done with his improvisational skills, escapability and incredible arm strength.

And Trevor, Elway certainly did have a lot of talent in his last few years, but was it more than Montana had with Rice, Craig, Taylor, etc., or Aikman in Dallas, or Bradshaw? The teams Elway lost Super Bowls with were honestly not very good.

VNV Nation · 08-02-2002, 12:13 AM

Just to complete my top 10:

6. Steve Young Really, I think he was as good as anyone, ever. But didn't have as many good years.
7. Otto Graham -- played 10 years, played in championship game 9 times.
8. Brett Favre
9. Dan Fouts
10. Fran Tarkenton

08-02-2002, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TGwynn19
2) Dan Marino Give him Walter Payton as a teammate and this debate is OVER.

I agree with you Trev.

Marino, Montana, Unitas, John "Herman Munster" Elway (as a Seahawk and Yankee fan, I have always hated him

),and Favre

pwdennis · 08-02-2002, 02:41 AM

Johnny Unitas

Of all the quarterbacks I've seen, Johnny Unitas was the toughest and most fearless.

Since Unita's heydays the rules have been changed to make it easier for easier for receivers to get open. Under today's rules Unitas would be throwing for 300 yards a game routinely.

Others on my greatest QB list (in no particular order)

Steve Young
Terry Bradshaw
Dan Marino
Bart Starr
John Elway
Sonny Jurgenson
Dan Marino
Roger Staubach
Fran Tarkington

I have limited this to QBs that I actually saw over the course of several seasons. Although I saw Y.A. Tittle and Bobby Layne play a couple of times, it was only at the tail end of their careers. From what I saw of Layne, I suspect that during his prime he was one tough hombre.

rcartman28 · 08-02-2002, 08:59 AM

1. Montana--he just had a way of winning championships and big games...
2. Unitas--best field commander and toughest
3. Marino--only lacked supporting talent and pretty much single-handedly carried Dolphins for years.
4. Elway--amazing knack for comebacks
5. Favre--I live in Wisconsin, of course I think he's one of the greatest.
6. Young--misfortune of being Montana's caddy for several years.
7. Graham--the Browns always won when he was quarterback.
8. Layne--one tough hombre.
9. Bradshaw--crazy like a fox, and won.
10. Starr--ran Lombardi's system to perfection.

KCBOOMER · 08-02-2002, 09:38 AM

VNV, you don't have Johnny U. in your top ten???? He is certainly no worse than second at his position. Incredible leader, great at fourth quarter comebacks, and tough as nails.

08-02-2002, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwdennis

Others on my greatest QB list (in no particular order)

Sonny Jurgenson

Now THAT was one tough s.o b.!

Max Power · 08-02-2002, 12:43 PM

No Stabler? Just asking - I know little 'bout football these days............

08-01-2002, 07:11 PM	#1
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Are you ready for some football? Greatest QBs Just to get in training camp mode, let's debate the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history: 1. John Elway He's far from a consensus pick, but Elway has a good argument against almost any other great quarterback. He trails Marino, and only Marino, in most career counting stats, such as yardage and touchdowns, but he was far more mobile than Dan, and went to five Super Bowls, instead of one, and won two of them. Compared to Montana, he had a much, much stronger arm, and for most of his career, he didn't play in a system designed to produce gaudy QB stats. Montana and Staubach were renowned for their comeback ability, but of course, no one was ever better at this than Elway, with 47 career wins when trailing in the fourth quarter, plus The Drive in the AFC Championship game. 2. Joe Montana My head wants me to say Steve Young was a better player than Montana, and maybe he was, but Montana's credentials are too good. Singlehandedly carried the Niners to a championship in '82. 3. Roger Staubach His career was delayed by military obligation, and he retired early. In between, he played in four Super Bowls and seven NFC championships, was the No. 1 or No. 2 rated passer just about every season he played. 4. Dan Marino Holds all the records. 5. Johnny Unitas

08-01-2002, 07:15 PM	#2
Gosfgiants NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,136	I can't really argue with your choices. Those are the greats at the QB position. I'd probably add Bradshaw into that list as well. He made the thows when he had to. I think that Brett Favre's name will probably require inclusion in this list once he's done playing. __________________ It'll always be Pacbell Park Beat LA!!!

08-02-2002, 02:41 AM	#11
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	Johnny Unitas Of all the quarterbacks I've seen, Johnny Unitas was the toughest and most fearless. Since Unita's heydays the rules have been changed to make it easier for easier for receivers to get open. Under today's rules Unitas would be throwing for 300 yards a game routinely. Others on my greatest QB list (in no particular order) Steve Young Terry Bradshaw Dan Marino Bart Starr John Elway Sonny Jurgenson Dan Marino Roger Staubach Fran Tarkington I have limited this to QBs that I actually saw over the course of several seasons. Although I saw Y.A. Tittle and Bobby Layne play a couple of times, it was only at the tail end of their careers. From what I saw of Layne, I suspect that during his prime he was one tough hombre. __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

08-02-2002, 08:59 AM	#12
rcartman28 NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hudson, WI Posts: 1,408	1. Montana--he just had a way of winning championships and big games... 2. Unitas--best field commander and toughest 3. Marino--only lacked supporting talent and pretty much single-handedly carried Dolphins for years. 4. Elway--amazing knack for comebacks 5. Favre--I live in Wisconsin, of course I think he's one of the greatest. 6. Young--misfortune of being Montana's caddy for several years. 7. Graham--the Browns always won when he was quarterback. 8. Layne--one tough hombre. 9. Bradshaw--crazy like a fox, and won. 10. Starr--ran Lombardi's system to perfection. __________________ I would have looked out for the water main. But that's just me..... Brett Favre

08-02-2002, 09:38 AM	#13
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	VNV, you don't have Johnny U. in your top ten???? He is certainly no worse than second at his position. Incredible leader, great at fourth quarter comebacks, and tough as nails. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

08-01-2002, 07:45 PM	#3
poorme Guest Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: washington dc Posts: 2,625	I'd take Favre.

08-01-2002, 09:06 PM	#4
moose Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Socs Posts: 3,400	i am (a) not a green bay fan, and (b) not particularly a favre fan... ...but i'm appalled at favre not being there. I know his career isn't over and all, but his #s until now could stand on their own.

08-01-2002, 09:12 PM	#6
TGwynn19 Guest Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 2,087	1) Joe Montana If it needed being done, it was done. 2) Dan Marino Give him Walter Payton as a teammate and this debate is OVER. 3) Fran Tarkenton Was a 2002 version of a QB in the 1970's 4) John Elway Probably had the most talent around him longer than any QB in history. But, damn he was good. 5) Warren Moon 1,002,973 yards passing (including CFL )

08-01-2002, 09:33 PM	#7
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	Warren Moon was a revolutionary. If there's no Warren Moon, there would be fewer athletic quarterbacks in the NFL. The so-called "black quarterback" was made popular by Randall Cunningham, being the evolutionary freak he was, but Moon made it happen. He wasn't the first, but he was the best one, he was the most "fundamentally sound". Cunningham WAS better, but not as long as Moon was. Gwynn's big 5 is my big 5, not necessarily in the same order, and it's going to take a lot for that to be changed. Favre is doing enough to get there...I'll say that.

08-02-2002, 12:10 AM	#8
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Moose: Absolutely, Brett Favre is a great, great QB. But he played at the same time as Elway, Young, Marino, Montana....He certainly belongs in that group, but I can't see that he's any better than any of them. I also can't believe that all of the best quarterbacks in history played after 1980, so I felt compelled to put Johnny U. and Staubach there. If anything, guys like Otto Graham, Y.A. Tittle, Namath and Tarkenton deserve consideration before Favre. Favre makes the top 10 though. As for the comebacks, it's really a different case in football than in baseball. For one thing, I believe Elway was hampered for years playing under Dan Reeves' system -- Reeves is/was a great coach, but he's not an offensive genius. Also, the last two minutes of a game is really where all of Elway's talents shone: you'd have to just turn the reins over to him and he would somehow get it done with his improvisational skills, escapability and incredible arm strength. And Trevor, Elway certainly did have a lot of talent in his last few years, but was it more than Montana had with Rice, Craig, Taylor, etc., or Aikman in Dallas, or Bradshaw? The teams Elway lost Super Bowls with were honestly not very good.

08-02-2002, 12:13 AM	#9
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Just to complete my top 10: 6. Steve Young Really, I think he was as good as anyone, ever. But didn't have as many good years. 7. Otto Graham -- played 10 years, played in championship game 9 times. 8. Brett Favre 9. Dan Fouts 10. Fran Tarkenton

08-02-2002, 12:43 PM	#15
Max Power NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: May 2002 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 5,548	No Stabler? Just asking - I know little 'bout football these days............ __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator "They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go." That's why there's NetShrine.com

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