Best Recent Cuban Import

[NetShrine]

Who do you think has been the "best" of all the Cuban defectors so far? (The recent guys - not the Cansecos, Palmieros - or the Tiants or Tony Perezes.)

See:
http://espn.go.com/gen/s/2001/0709/1224115.html
for the list.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Based on performance to date, I think you have to go with
El Duque.

[ChrisCary]

No doubt, El Duque.
however because of his age it won'tbe long before someone can surpass his career numbers.

[NetShrine]

Chris - what's with the avatar change?
Buzz - man, this was bait! I thought for sure you were going Rey-Rey. I was loaded for bear.

[ChrisCary]

Originally posted by NetShrine
Chris - what's with the avatar change?
Buzz - man, this was bait! I thought for sure you were going Rey-Rey. I was loaded for bear.

Big Met fan, we're gonna kick those Sox butts this weekend,
Big met fan.


Even though I'm sure Rey will put on his normally dazzling display in the field and couple it with some key hits over the weekend, even giant Met fans such as Buzz and myself have to admit that the Cuban on our varsity team has had much more success since coming over.

[NetShrine]

Don't worry about the Bosox Chris - - their whole team is on the DL until September.

Saberhagen and Cone will be 40% of their rotation.

Know what, if they do win it, man, they deserve it.

[pjl7]

Tony Oliva. Has to be Tony Oliva...

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by pjl7
Tony Oliva. Has to be Tony Oliva...

Is he one of the recent ones? Should have seen this coming PJL............

If I post this (below), will it make you feel better?

TONY OLIVA LEAGUE LEADERSHIP RANKINGS

GAMES
1964 AL 6TH 161
1966 AL 9TH 159

AT BATS
1964 AL 2ND 672
1966 AL 3RD 622
1969 AL 2ND 637
1970 AL 4TH 628

RUNS
1964 AL 1ST 109
1965 AL 2ND 107
1966 AL 2ND 99
1969 AL 9TH 97
1970 AL T8TH 96

HITS
1964 AL 1ST 217
1965 AL 1ST 185
1966 AL 1ST 191
1967 AL 8TH 161
1969 AL 1ST 197
1970 AL 1ST 204
1971 AL 7TH 164
1973 AL 10TH 166

SINGLES
1964 AL T2ND 133
1965 AL 5TH 124
1966 AL 2ND 127
1969 AL 5TH 130
1970 AL T5TH 138
1973 AL T8TH 130

DOUBLES
1964 AL 1ST 43
1965 AL 3RD 40
1966 AL T4TH 32
1967 AL 1ST 34
1969 AL 1ST 39
1970 AL T1ST 36
1971 AL T3RD 30

TRIPLES
1964 AL T3RD 9
1966 AL T9TH 7
1967 AL T10TH 6
1970 AL T4TH 7

HOMERUNS
1964 AL T6TH 32

RBI
1964 AL T9TH 94
1965 AL 3RD 98
1966 AL 10TH 87
1967 AL 5TH 83
1969 AL 7TH 101
1970 AL 5TH 107

STOLEN BASES
1965 AL 6TH 19

CAUGHT STEALING
1964 AL T8TH 6
1965 AL T3RD 9
1968 AL 9TH 9
1969 AL T5TH 13

AVERAGE
1964 AL 1ST .323
1965 AL 1ST .321
1966 AL 2ND .307
1967 AL 8TH .289
1968 AL 3RD .289
1969 AL 3RD .309
1970 AL 3RD .325
1971 AL 1ST .337

SLG
1964 AL 3RD .557
1965 AL 5TH .491
1966 AL 6TH .502
1967 AL 9TH .463
1968 AL 5TH .477
1969 AL 10TH .496
1970 AL 7TH .514
1971 AL 1ST .546

OBA
1965 AL 4TH .378
1966 AL 9TH .353
1968 AL 7TH .357

OPS
1964 AL 5TH .916
1965 AL 3RD .870
1966 AL 6TH .854
1968 AL 6TH .833
1970 AL 7TH .878
1971 AL 2ND .915

RUNS CREATED
1964 AL 1ST 132
1965 AL T1ST 110
1966 AL 3RD 106
1967 AL 8TH 91
1969 AL 9TH 107
1970 AL 7TH 112

RCAA
1964 AL T3RD 51
1965 AL 1ST 44
1966 AL 8TH 27
1968 AL 10TH 25
1970 AL 8TH 38
1971 AL T9TH 31

RCAP
1964 AL 3RD 44
1965 AL 1ST 34

OWP
1964 AL 4TH .710
1965 AL 2ND .716
1966 AL 10TH .631
1968 AL 9TH .670
1970 AL 9TH .684
1971 AL 7TH .687

RUNS CREATED/GAME
1964 AL 4TH 7.49
1965 AL 3RD 7.07
1966 AL 7TH 6.19
1967 AL 10TH 5.93
1968 AL 7TH 5.87
1970 AL 9TH 6.73
1971 AL 5TH 6.96

TOTAL BASES
1964 AL 1ST 374
1965 AL 3RD 283
1966 AL 2ND 312
1967 AL 7TH 258
1969 AL 4TH 316
1970 AL 2ND 323
1971 AL 5TH 266

EXTRA BASE HITS
1964 AL 1ST 84
1965 AL T3RD 61
1966 AL 3RD 64
1967 AL 5TH 57
1969 AL T5TH 67
1970 AL 3RD 66
1971 AL 5TH 55

ISOLATED POWER
1964 AL 5TH .234
1967 AL 10TH .174
1968 AL 8TH .187
1971 AL 8TH .209

BPA
1964 AL 5TH .575
1965 AL 6TH .533
1966 AL 7TH .517
1968 AL 8TH .507
1971 AL 7TH .531

INTENTIONAL WALKS
1965 AL T3RD 12
1966 AL T6TH 10
1967 AL 5TH 12
1968 AL 1ST 16
1969 AL T6TH 12
1970 AL T5TH 12
1973 AL 2ND 14
1974 AL T7TH 11
1975 AL 3RD 15

HIT BY PITCHES
1964 AL T9TH 6
1966 AL T10TH 5
1967 AL T6TH 8
1968 AL T8TH 7
1975 AL T1ST 13

GIDP
1971 AL T4TH 21

SACRIFICE FLIES
1965 AL 1ST 10
1966 AL T8TH 6
1968 AL T10TH 5

PLATE APPEARANCES
1964 AL T3RD 718
1966 AL T10TH 677
1969 AL 6TH 692

OUTS
1964 AL 7TH 476
1969 AL 9TH 470

[pjl7]

Yes. That makes me feel much better. Scary to think that he's my second favorite player all-time, right?

Actually, as far as the current Cuban players go, Hernandez has to be the best. But, where does he rank in comparison to the new Japanese stars that have emerged?

[NetShrine]

Japan has lapped Cuba. Quality over quantity.

Back to Tony O - ironically, I saw him interviewed yesterday on "Talking Baseball with Ed Randall."

Nice man. English still not great. Missed most of the interview - but, in the part that I saw, it was extremely evident that he is confused (I would not say bitter or upset) as to why he is not in Cooperstown. He mentioned that sometimes players like him need to wait for the Vets Committee - but, he realizes that's a problem too - as they can only take one player a year and they often want to take care of friends too. (These are his words.)

He did mention that there are players just like him in the Hall - and players with lesser numbers in the Hall.

It's a shame that the HOF has this hold on the players - I wish they would realize that it's just a building in upstate NY - and having a plaque there really doesn't change who they are.

Tony did say that he feels great about his career and had no regrets.

[pjl7]

That makes me think about (not an ad...) one of the best books I've read. "Politics of Glory" by Bill James. You don't need to agree with his opinions or methods, but the institutional history of the HOF and some of the insight on exactly what a "Hall of Famer" is or isnt (at all times within the context that the Hall is a self-defining institution) really makes you think.

The HOF selections by the Vets committee have ranged from commendable to questionable to absured. Tony Oliva is as much a symptom as anything. Due to previous cronyism by guys like Frisch and Terry, the 1920s and 1930s are grossly overrepresented. To correct those errors, a tighter cap has been put on revisiting the writers' decisions (a much better, but also flawed system) about players from the 1950s and 1960s. The guys from the 1970s on will have a somewhat better shake (I think) because many of the writers who refuse to vote will be gone and because those decades saw a resurgence of offense which will allow guys to get in on raw numbers alone. A .330 career average with 500 homers is impressive. It is also something about 100 times easier to do now than it was then.

While not all of them deserve in (and some may argue that none do) I hope that the Hall eventually realizes that it needs to find a way to provide a more normal distribution of honors. Any place that honors Ross Youngs, Rick Ferrell, Fred Lindstrom, and Chick Hafey while ignoring Oliva, Ron Santo and Norm Cash has a flaw in the system.

[NetShrine]

I'd be more impressed if they took Rick Ferrell out - that would show some ping pongs. You all know the story of how he got in? It was a mistake.

BTW, POG was released as a paperback under another name - "What happened to the HOF?" I think?

y'all are SO right! in that bill james book he
makes the main point that the hof is a self
defining institution which long ago ceased to define itself even semi-reasonably. if rick ferrell and george kelly are hall of famers,4000
other guys are. if you say those were mistakes
and we can't use them as examples,try to tell that
to all the guys who KNOW they were better than
them but arent going in. the big problem is people
(including voters) love stats but arent interested in context. how do you explain that a .290 avg. in
1966 is = to a .340 avg. in 1929? fred lindstrom's
stats just look cool. the deadball and '60s-'70s
guys get the shaft coming and going; first in
favor of the '20s guys and in upcoming years in
favor of the current offensive wave. how do we tell our kids that reggie and schmidtwere great with30 hr when 60 guys a year do that now? i fear
santo and tony o may be out in the cold.

[NetShrine]

When asked where is the Hall of Fame? I always answer - it's where sportswriters put their friends when they retire.

[NetShrine]

Was the Justice Department around before 1947?

Thursday, August 16
Orioles cleared after Justice Department probe
Associated Press

BALTIMORE -- A U.S. Justice Department Justice investigation of the Baltimore Orioles found no evidence the team discriminated in its hiring practices.

Orioles owner Peter Angelos had been accused of refusing to sign Cuban defectors in order to maintain good relations with the government of Fidel Castro.

In a letter to Angelos released Thursday, John Trasvina, special counsel for immigration related unfair employment practices, informed the owner that the investigation had been closed.

"Our investigation has found no reasonable cause to believe that citizenship status discrimination has occurred," Trasvina wrote.

Angelos took the Orioles to Havana in 1999 to play the Cuban national team and arranged a reciprocal game in Baltimore.

The Washington Times reported in May of 2000 that Angelos was refusing to sign Cuban players in order to maintain a relationship with Castro. Angelos repeatedly denied the accusation.

U.S. Sen. Jesse Helms requested the Justice Department investigation and a similar probe by the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which also found no evidence of discrimination by the Orioles.

"My interest, of course, is a sympathetic one for Cubans who manage to flee the repressive regime of Fidel Castro," Helms wrote in his letter to the EEOC.

Joe Kehoskie, an agent who has represented 11 Cuban defectors, said Thursday that numbers indicate a Cuban boycott by the Orioles.

"There have been between 50 and 55 Cuban defectors over the last ten years," Kehoskie said. "It's rather strange to me that the Orioles haven't signed any of them.

"My phone has never rung from the Baltimore Orioles," he continued. "They've never called, not an inquiry, not an e-mail, not a fax. They've never sent a scout for one of my Cuban players."