Which HOF Pitcher would get the "Smedbar" (crowbar)?

[Fuzzy Bear]

Same rules here: I've left out the Frisch selections (Pop Haines, Rube Marquard) because NO ONE thinks they're eligible. (The Frisch selections were an abberation, anyway, well below the normal VETS COMMITTEES!)

[Golden Bear]

Fingers is a special case; what you think of him in the HOF basically is a Rorshach of what you think of modern relievers (which shouldn't be defined to include the post-modern one inning wonders) in the Hall.

(Or you just think that Goose should have gotten in before Fingers; I'd call their cases about even -- the fluky 1981 MVP and the [then] saves record making the difference with the BBWAA.)

Anyway, if you buy closers making the HOF, Fingers (and Wilhelm, who is clearly better than Fingers IMO) certainly makes the cut.

Among the rest, Hoyt and Pennock are very similar, and to me are clearly the weak links. They're both pretty comparable to the much-maligned Jesse Haines. It's hard for me to choose between the two. Hoyt had a slightly better peak, and Pennock the slightly better career. They're both there in large part riding the coattails of being on the 1927 Yankees. Pennock also played for the 1912-1914 A's and the Red Sox of the late teens, so he's associated with three dynasties.

After his playing career ended Pennock was a coach with the Red Sox, and then managed their farm system until 1944, when he bacame general manager of the Phillies, until his premature death in 1948. He was elected to the HOF that year by the BBWAA -- whether it was before or after his death I don't know.

Hoyt became a radio broadcaster for the Cincinnati Reds following his retirement, 1941-1965. He was elected by the Veteran's Committee in 1969 along with Stan Coveleski; Frisch was on the committee, but he didn't seize control & go berserk until 1971. Hoyt died in 1984.

Both were visible for years after their playing careers ended, which increases the odds of induction. Pennock may have also gotten a significant sympathy vote. Both were also young prodigies, having gone to the majors directly from high school.

I seem to remember that Pennock had fought integration and Jackie Robinson as the Phillies GM in the year before his death. He may have just been reflecting his owner, Bob Carpenter, though...the Phils were the last in the NL to integrate, if I remember correctly. Absent all this, I think Pennock is a smidge ahead of Hoyt.

I'm inclined to just holster the crowbar here...but Hoyt and Pennock should definitely be the floor.

[VNV Nation]

I agree; Hoyt and Pennock are the "class" of this group. The others are borderline but not ridiculous; Gomez and Dean get in based on best years.

I don't know why Bunning and Hunter are even on this list. Hunter had one of the best sliders ever and was able to win 20+ games 5 years in a row, during which time he held opposing hitters to a .227 batting average. And Bunning, while he was often in the shadows of Koufax and others, was considered by opposing hitters to be one of the toughest pitchers to face during his career.

[pwdennis]

Pennock & Hoyt are easily the "cream of the crap" as far as non-Frischian selectees - strangely there were other Yankees of the twenties such as Urban Shocker, Bob Shawkey and Carl Mays who were superior pitchers who never got a whiff of the HOF

[SmedIndy]

Pennock is the choice. Those Yankee teams made their pitchers look a lot better.

Mays isn't in the HOF for one reason, and one reason alone...

[KCBOOMER]

I'll go with Pennock just because his ERA versus the league is two tenths of a point higher than Hoyt's. Interesting that these guys are the number one comps for each other. Also interesting that Pennock has Carl Hubbell as a comp (as well as the much Clark Griffith and the much maligned Jesse Haines) while the only other HoF comp for Hoyt is Haines.

[LeGrandOrange]

Selected Pennock for the same reason, he was the Jack Morris of his time. Pennock has one of my favorite nicknames to say, but being dubbed the Knight of Kennett Square shouldn't get you in the hall. Though it sounds good.
Hoyt's more marginal in terms of W-L, but Hoyt was a better pitcher, IMO. Not that it's saying much, since Guidry was better then both in the right context, but that's another story...

[Golden Bear]

Since someone else brought it up, has anyone else ever been to Kennett Square? It's really a cute, quaint little town. The Brandywine country is great.

OK, no more off topic stuff, but I couldn't help myself.

[TGwynn19]

Don Drysdale, period.

[sweaver]

I have occasionally commented, though rarely voted, in these polls because I feel that although some picks are borderline at best, the only really egregious selections are the "Frisch selections."

[Golden Bear]

You've stated my sentiments better than I did, SWeaver.

[CubFan7125]

I looked at Pennock's #'s & he seems a dubious pick at best. But I really remember being bothered by Bunning's selection when he got in(Thank God the veterans committee has since been gassed). He played in a pitchers era yet only won 20 once(I know he won 19 several times) and never had a truly dominant run of several seasons. He seems to me at least to be a Jack Morris type. By that I mean very, very good for quite a while but never great. I don't know if he is any less deserving than the others on this list, but he is the most recent & therefore sticks out in my MTV generation mind the most

I thought at the time & still think that he got elected as much for his public service record as for his pitching(Hey, we can elect a Senator to the HOF). I know this is kinda' , but I take the Smedbar to Frisch & Scooter long before I take it to any of the P's on this list.

[SmedIndy]

I really need to get a made with my crowbar....anyone good with art?

[Golden Bear]

Maybe a Highpockets Kelly avatar with a circle and slash?