Yankees infield

VNV Nation · 06-18-2002, 10:42 AM

The Yankees have probably the greatest infield in their history. Bill James notes that the Yankees have historically had great outfielders and great catchers, but few times has their infield been the best part of the team.

This year though, the Yankees have four players who could all reasonably expect to go to the All-Star game. All four players hit homers (on pace for 132 homers), two are OBP guys, two have great speed. The interesting thing is that, among great infields, this is probably the weakest defensively.

(Obligatory comment on Jeter's fielding: It is now fashionable to say that Jeter is a subpar shortstop. One person I know called him the Mike Piazza, Frank Thomas of shortstops. While I can understand the urge to knock down someone like Jeter now and then, and do it myself, I've always thought this was overblown. The Yankees have a high strikeout, low groundball staff, and obviously a good staff, all of which is a major factor in Jeter's low range factor. Other than the errors, and the occasional botched DP ball, I've never seen Jeter hurt his team defensively -- maybe it's just me, but I don't see a ton of basehits in Yankees games where I think "Gee, Omar Vizquel would have had that one." In addition, often we think that the shortstops' only job is to field grounders, but it's not. It seems to me that, at least once a week, Jeter makes some unusual play to get an out somewhere, or to hold a runner from advancing, that another shortstop might not make. Clearly, his arm, as is true with A-Rod, goes a long way to compensate for the Yankees' unusually weak throwing arms in the outfield.)

Anyway, where do you think the Yankees' infield ranks, among all-time infields or infields of the past 10 years, etc. The fact that Jeter is having a poor year probably hurts them in comparison with past great infields.

SmedIndy · 06-18-2002, 11:03 AM

Let me see where they wind up in September / October. Ventura's getting older, and I want to see what Soriano does the rest of the way.

I think that Mets infield in 1999 was pretty darn good, even if it did have Ordonez sucking outs out of the lineup.

poorme · 06-18-2002, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by VNV Nation

Anyway, where do you think the Yankees' infield ranks, among all-time infields or infields of the past 10 years, etc. The fact that Jeter is having a poor year probably hurts them in comparison with past great infields.

I guess we are talking one year only?

VNV Nation · 06-18-2002, 11:05 AM

I'd take Jeter over Ordonez, Giambi over Olerud. Ventura may have been better in 1999. I'd take Alfonso (.304-27-102) over Soriano.

calexpat · 06-18-2002, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by VNV Nation
I'd take Alfonso (.304-27-102) over Soriano.

I'd take Jason over Giambi, Derek over Jeter...sorry, couldn't resist.

poorme · 06-18-2002, 11:18 AM

Some teams that come to mind: 70's dodgers and reds. 30's tigers and yanks, O's with boog and brooks, 50s dodgers...

VNV Nation · 06-18-2002, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by calexpat

I'd take Jason over Giambi, Derek over Jeter...sorry, couldn't resist.

oops

I'd take Edgardo over AlfonZo

VNV Nation · 06-18-2002, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by poorme
Some teams that come to mind: 70's dodgers and reds. 30's tigers and yanks, O's with boog and brooks, 50s dodgers...

The 70s Dodgers and Orioles lacked a true MVP candidate, but the others are certainly great.

I think the Indians infield of Fryman/Viz/Alomar/Thome might be a bit better. they're similar, really, the Yanks have better offense and the Indians better defense.

poorme · 06-18-2002, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by VNV Nation

The 70s Dodgers and Orioles lacked a true MVP candidate, but the others are certainly great.

not to pick nits, but garvey won the mvp in 1974, boog in 1970.

Golden Bear · 06-18-2002, 11:41 AM

Garvey won for the 70's Dodgers (1974), and Boog Powell won for the 1970 Orioles; also, though Brooks was past his hitting prime, he won in 1964.

poorme · 06-18-2002, 11:43 AM

I guess great minds think alike golden bear!

SmedIndy · 06-18-2002, 11:47 AM

Lest we forget the $1,000,000 infield. McInnis, Collins, Baker and Barry.

And the Cubs 1900's infield was definitely responsible for a great deal of their success (Steinfeldlt, Tinker, Evers, Chance).

Don't forget the 75-76 Reds with Rose, Concepcion, Morgan, Perez.

calexpat · 06-18-2002, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Don't forget the 75-76 Reds with Rose, Concepcion, Morgan, Perez.

In terms of career value, I don't think you can top that one. Two top-tier HOFers (one in, one out), two marginal HOFers (one in, one out.) With a couple twists of fate, you could have the whole group in Cooperstown.

KCBOOMER · 06-18-2002, 12:23 PM

The mid-30's Yanks had Gehrig, Lazzeri/Gordon, Crossetti and Rolfe. I would say that was the strength of those teams until Gehrig got sick.

Skip · 06-18-2002, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Don't forget the 75-76 Reds with Rose, Concepcion, Morgan, Perez.

This was my obvious choice, and I think its a legit one. Figured I'd stay mute until someone else brought it up first though.

06-18-2002, 10:42 AM	#1
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Yankees infield The Yankees have probably the greatest infield in their history. Bill James notes that the Yankees have historically had great outfielders and great catchers, but few times has their infield been the best part of the team. This year though, the Yankees have four players who could all reasonably expect to go to the All-Star game. All four players hit homers (on pace for 132 homers), two are OBP guys, two have great speed. The interesting thing is that, among great infields, this is probably the weakest defensively. (Obligatory comment on Jeter's fielding: It is now fashionable to say that Jeter is a subpar shortstop. One person I know called him the Mike Piazza, Frank Thomas of shortstops. While I can understand the urge to knock down someone like Jeter now and then, and do it myself, I've always thought this was overblown. The Yankees have a high strikeout, low groundball staff, and obviously a good staff, all of which is a major factor in Jeter's low range factor. Other than the errors, and the occasional botched DP ball, I've never seen Jeter hurt his team defensively -- maybe it's just me, but I don't see a ton of basehits in Yankees games where I think "Gee, Omar Vizquel would have had that one." In addition, often we think that the shortstops' only job is to field grounders, but it's not. It seems to me that, at least once a week, Jeter makes some unusual play to get an out somewhere, or to hold a runner from advancing, that another shortstop might not make. Clearly, his arm, as is true with A-Rod, goes a long way to compensate for the Yankees' unusually weak throwing arms in the outfield.) Anyway, where do you think the Yankees' infield ranks, among all-time infields or infields of the past 10 years, etc. The fact that Jeter is having a poor year probably hurts them in comparison with past great infields.

06-18-2002, 11:41 AM	#10
Golden Bear NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,100	No MVP's? Garvey won for the 70's Dodgers (1974), and Boog Powell won for the 1970 Orioles; also, though Brooks was past his hitting prime, he won in 1964.

06-18-2002, 12:23 PM	#14
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	The mid-30's Yanks had Gehrig, Lazzeri/Gordon, Crossetti and Rolfe. I would say that was the strength of those teams until Gehrig got sick. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

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06-18-2002, 11:03 AM	#2
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Let me see where they wind up in September / October. Ventura's getting older, and I want to see what Soriano does the rest of the way. I think that Mets infield in 1999 was pretty darn good, even if it did have Ordonez sucking outs out of the lineup.

06-18-2002, 11:05 AM	#4
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	I'd take Jeter over Ordonez, Giambi over Olerud. Ventura may have been better in 1999. I'd take Alfonso (.304-27-102) over Soriano.

06-18-2002, 11:18 AM	#6
poorme Guest Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: washington dc Posts: 2,625	Some teams that come to mind: 70's dodgers and reds. 30's tigers and yanks, O's with boog and brooks, 50s dodgers...

06-18-2002, 11:43 AM	#11
poorme Guest Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: washington dc Posts: 2,625	I guess great minds think alike golden bear!

06-18-2002, 11:47 AM	#12
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Lest we forget the $1,000,000 infield. McInnis, Collins, Baker and Barry. And the Cubs 1900's infield was definitely responsible for a great deal of their success (Steinfeldlt, Tinker, Evers, Chance). Don't forget the 75-76 Reds with Rose, Concepcion, Morgan, Perez.

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