Pudge or Piazza

calexpat · 06-18-2002, 02:11 PM

Who's better?

SmedIndy · 06-18-2002, 02:13 PM

Piazza - because right now Pudge isn't playing in the majors.

nyyfanfrombirth · 06-18-2002, 02:50 PM

Even if Pudge was playing, I'd still take Piazza. Not great defensively, but he's better offensively.

calexpat · 06-18-2002, 02:54 PM

Okay, I mean who's had a better career up to now, and who can be expected to have a better career in the future, Pudge's injury notwithstanding.

It comes down to weighing Piazza's sizeable offensive edge (which is even bigger than it looks, due to park effects) against Rodriquez's sizeable defensive edge. Can someone start us off by posting Win Shares?

SmedIndy · 06-18-2002, 03:06 PM

I still say Piazza, but in five years it'll be Pudge, depending on if HE can still play catcher due to his injuries.

KCBOOMER · 06-18-2002, 04:16 PM

Both guys have ten years in the bigs. Piazza has an RCAA of 410 and Rodrigues has 51. That's a pretty big run differential to make up with a glove.

calexpat · 06-18-2002, 04:43 PM

No doubt. I'd like to see the numbers though...Piazza may be below replacement level with the glove, while Pudge is historic. It may be closer than we think...

SmedIndy · 06-18-2002, 05:08 PM

With the way teams run nowadays, there's not a huge upside with I-Rod's arm. No one runs a lot, and no one runs a lot on him.

VNV Nation · 06-18-2002, 05:44 PM

I'd say, over the early parts of their careers, Piazza was clearly ahead. Piazza does some nice things behind the plate, and when he could throw out 25 percent of guys, he wasn't a disaster behind the plate, and he was far ahead of Pudge offensively.

But in the late 90s, Pudge improved tremendously as a hitter, and Piazza's defense got worse and worse. I think, sometime in the late 90s, Pudge passed him, however...Pudge can't stay healthy these days, which obviously negates a lot of his value.

I think they're still No. 1-2. A few catchers seemed poised to overtake them, but they haven't done so.

VNV Nation · 06-18-2002, 05:53 PM

Win Shares by year:

1991
Pudge 6, Piazza 0

1992
Pudge 13, Piazza 1

1993
Piazza 31, Pudge 15

1994
Piazza 21, Pudge 15

1995
Piazza 27, Pudge 16

1996
Piazza 33, Pudge 23

1997
Piazza 39, Pudge 26

1998
Piazza 33, Pudge 27

1999
Pudge 28, Piazza 21

2000
Piazza 28, Rodriguez 19 (91 games)

2001
Piazza 21, Rodriguez 18 (111 games)

Career:
Piazza 255, Rodriguez 206

Since 1999, Pudge has been the more effective player but he has missed almost a season's worth of games, counting this year.

Pudge is three years younger than Piazza, but has caught about 100 games more than Piazza.

06-18-2002, 02:11 PM	#1
calexpat All-NetShrine Team Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 448	Pudge or Piazza Who's better?

06-18-2002, 02:50 PM	#3
nyyfanfrombirth All-NetShrine Team Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York State Posts: 340	Even if Pudge was playing, I'd still take Piazza. Not great defensively, but he's better offensively. __________________ "Gazizza."

06-18-2002, 04:16 PM	#6
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	Both guys have ten years in the bigs. Piazza has an RCAA of 410 and Rodrigues has 51. That's a pretty big run differential to make up with a glove. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

06-18-2002, 05:44 PM	#9
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	I'd say, over the early parts of their careers, Piazza was clearly ahead. Piazza does some nice things behind the plate, and when he could throw out 25 percent of guys, he wasn't a disaster behind the plate, and he was far ahead of Pudge offensively. But in the late 90s, Pudge improved tremendously as a hitter, and Piazza's defense got worse and worse. I think, sometime in the late 90s, Pudge passed him, however...Pudge can't stay healthy these days, which obviously negates a lot of his value. I think they're still No. 1-2. A few catchers seemed poised to overtake them, but they haven't done so. Last edited by VNV Nation : 06-18-2002 at 05:54 PM.

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06-18-2002, 02:13 PM	#2
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Piazza - because right now Pudge isn't playing in the majors.

06-18-2002, 02:54 PM	#4
calexpat All-NetShrine Team Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 448	Okay, I mean who's had a better career up to now, and who can be expected to have a better career in the future, Pudge's injury notwithstanding. It comes down to weighing Piazza's sizeable offensive edge (which is even bigger than it looks, due to park effects) against Rodriquez's sizeable defensive edge. Can someone start us off by posting Win Shares?

06-18-2002, 03:06 PM	#5
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	I still say Piazza, but in five years it'll be Pudge, depending on if HE can still play catcher due to his injuries.

06-18-2002, 04:43 PM	#7
calexpat All-NetShrine Team Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 448	No doubt. I'd like to see the numbers though...Piazza may be below replacement level with the glove, while Pudge is historic. It may be closer than we think...

06-18-2002, 05:08 PM	#8
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	With the way teams run nowadays, there's not a huge upside with I-Rod's arm. No one runs a lot, and no one runs a lot on him.

06-18-2002, 05:53 PM	#10
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	Win Shares by year: 1991 Pudge 6, Piazza 0 1992 Pudge 13, Piazza 1 1993 Piazza 31, Pudge 15 1994 Piazza 21, Pudge 15 1995 Piazza 27, Pudge 16 1996 Piazza 33, Pudge 23 1997 Piazza 39, Pudge 26 1998 Piazza 33, Pudge 27 1999 Pudge 28, Piazza 21 2000 Piazza 28, Rodriguez 19 (91 games) 2001 Piazza 21, Rodriguez 18 (111 games) Career: Piazza 255, Rodriguez 206 Since 1999, Pudge has been the more effective player but he has missed almost a season's worth of games, counting this year. Pudge is three years younger than Piazza, but has caught about 100 games more than Piazza.

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