Mariners T-Shirt Ejections

[moose]

While I respect a team's right to keep order in its stadium, i don't like the idea of censorship.

By the way, if there really were Yankees fans wearing shirts portraying a fireman urinating on Ichiro, that would really embarrass me as a yankee fan, new yorker, and person.

And now to the gustavo-esque portion of my message
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Mariners remove ban on offensive clothing

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Associated Press


SEATTLE -- The Seattle Mariners have eased their policy on the words that may appear on clothing at Safeco Field.

Under the change that was announced Tuesday, the stadium crew has been told to take a "don't ask, don't tell" approach -- at least when it comes to use of the word "suck."

"This issue is better off going away," Mariners communications vice president Randy Adamack said.

Last month, while the New York Yankees were in town, several fans were told to remove or reverse T-shirts saying "Yankees Suck." Tuesday night a few fans wearing "Yankees Suck" or "Mariners Management Sucks" T-shirts were allowed to enter the ballpark for the Mariners' game against the Toronto Blue Jays.

"We may lead the league in ejections from the ballpark, but not because fans are misbehaving more here but because we don't tolerate much," team spokeswoman Rebecca Hale said last week. "This is about appropriate behavior. We have a code of conduct, a policy for language on clothing and banners and signs. Our feeling was this was not promoting what we want."

The shirts were being sold across the street from the stadium by at least one vendor, Hale said. No one was ejected for having the clothing.

There is a "Yanks Suck" Web site, providing a community for anti-Yankees fans and a place to buy such shirts. It was started by Boston Red Sox faithful.

Hale said she heard of T-shirts at Yankee Stadium last year featuring a New York firefighter urinating on Seattle star Ichiro Suzuki.

"There are different standards," Hale said. "That was apparently appropriate at Yankee Stadium. It wouldn't be at Safeco Field."

Hale said if the Mariners were to allow messages in the ballpark that could be offensive, other problems could arise, such as fist fights.

The Mariners had to ask fans to cover up inappropriate signs and clothing when Alex Rodriguez returned last year after leaving for Texas and a $252 million, 10-year contract, Hale said, and also when the Mariners played the Yankees in 2001.

[poorme]

Whoa, you can't wear a "Yankees Suck" or "Tampa Bay Sucks" tee shirt? That sounds like PC run wild to me. It's almost creepy how controlling they are.

[TimmyB]

While banning "Yanks Suck" tee-shirts doesn't rank up there with libraries banning "Huckleberry Finn", this is the good ol' USofA and we're supposed to tolerate all kinds of speech... even that of... well... people we think are morons. That's the price we pay.

All that said, having seen many a "Yankees Suck" or "Red Sox Suck" T at Fenway... there is a behavior that goes along with them (not everyone, of course, but as a group)... and it falls into the "do I really want my kid to listen to this?" category. (Of course, my "kid" is only 18 months old... but you get the point).

Mariners' management is not out-of-line in their efforts to keep their fans' behavior in line (doesn't just about every park now stop beer sales after the 7th inning or something like that?). But, really, pick your battles.

[moose]

Originally posted by TimmyB
While banning "Yanks Suck" tee-shirts doesn't rank up there with libraries banning "Huckleberry Finn", this is the good ol' USofA and we're supposed to tolerate all kinds of speech... even that of... well... people we think are morons. That's the price we pay.

All that said, having seen many a "Yankees Suck" or "Red Sox Suck" T at Fenway... there is a behavior that goes along with them (not everyone, of course, but as a group)... and it falls into the "do I really want my kid to listen to this?" category. (Of course, my "kid" is only 18 months old... but you get the point).

Mariners' management is not out-of-line in their efforts to keep their fans' behavior in line (doesn't just about every park now stop beer sales after the 7th inning or something like that?). But, really, pick your battles.

Very well put, TimmyB. I would simply emphasize that banning shirts because of associated behavior starts you down a very dangerous road. Pretty soon you're banning bikers, kids that look like they might be hoodlums, etc...

[TimmyB]

Originally posted by moose
I would simply emphasize that banning shirts because of associated behavior starts you down a very dangerous road. Pretty soon you're banning bikers, kids that look like they might be hoodlums, etc...

Exactly. And then who decides what is and isn't offensive and what is and isn't looking like a hoodlum, etc.? Dangerous territory.

The rest of baseball would do well not to follow down this slippery trail.

[Slippery Pedro]

Great country = free speech = right to wear "Yankees Suck"
<------IMHO

But, with shirts, there should be a line. I know there's someone at/near Fenway that sells "Jeter's Gay" shirts (with Derek in a pink tu-tu, I think?).

Now, if Jeter says anything, or tries to block the sale of the shirts, he's a loser - - so, he doesn't bother. If would be "nice" if the Fenway people did something about those shirts (perhaps under the banner "we will not tolerate slander on our premises"?) - - but, again, it's a fine line with the freedom of speech.

Still - - - here's a thought - - - - Q: If I went into a movie theater wearing a T-Shirt which read "Your mother drinks semen" would not the theater have the right to refuse allowing me to enter the building? Not sure. Maybe it's the same thing?

Point being - I can argue that "Yankees Suck" and "Your mother drinks semen" on a T-Shirt is the same thing.

[ChrisCary]

I read that Fenway is banning Netshine T's.


Good idea gone awry is the way I see it.

And I didn't see any firemen pissing on Ichiro (the shirts that is)

[Slippery Pedro]

Originally posted by ChrisCary
I read that Fenway is banning Netshine T's.

Not entirely true. If you slit the sleeves, it's still OK.

[hmrsf]

Do you ever wonder where these creatures come from? I have.


I now know where. I was at the game last year and the loud gutter lung was sitting behind me. I peeked back to see who was so tasteless. This guy had a ?4 year old on his knee chanting Yankees suck but Jeter......(.can we say drinks, use your own creativity). What was even sadder was this blessed child was doing the same? It is sickening.

This year I was looking for a t-shirt for a friend out of state. The local colleges come up with great ones. During the Yankee weekend they were so distateful that I bought one at the pro shop.

[Craig S.]

It seems funny to me that, of all the possible places to have fans wearing shirts like that, Seattle sets the example. I've only been to a couple of games at Safeco, but the fans certainly seemed unbelievably well-behaved and respectful. Then again, maybe that's why they've set "standards" for their fans that might be higher than other places.

A misguided notion, and I hope it doesn't lead to anything more.

[TGwynn19]

Originally posted by hmrsf

This year I was looking for a t-shirt for a friend out of state. The local colleges come up with great ones. During the Yankee weekend they were so distateful that I bought one at the pro shop.

And I wear it all the time!!

I don't think the ban should be lifted, there's nothing wrong w/promoting a nice, family-friendly atmosphere.

[TimmyB]

Originally posted by Slippery Pedro
...it's a fine line with the freedom of speech.

Still - - - here's a thought - - - - Q: If I went into a movie theater wearing a T-Shirt which read "Your mother drinks semen" would not the theater have the right to refuse allowing me to enter the building? Not sure. Maybe it's the same thing?

Point being - I can argue that "Yankees Suck" and "Your mother drinks semen" on a T-Shirt is the same thing.

Good point... and here's the tricky part. The owner of a private establishment does have the right to limit what and/or who walks through the doors. Like a restaurant that has a "jacket required" rule or in the movie theatre example. Or, more odiously, country clubs that remain "white only".

So, a private establishment can dictate some rules. On a smaller scale, it could be the same way any of us would dictate what goes on in our own houses (well, that is, as long as my wife would let me )

However, in public places, there's a big difference. Out there freedom of speech reigns. As it should. I shouldn't be allowed to enforce my rules of conduct for me and my family on everyone else. And I'm not allowed to...

City Hall plazas, downtown commons, the Dept. of Motor Vehicles, etc. etc. -- all these places are open, public and just about anyone and everyone can say or wear what one pleases.

Enter the publicly financed ballpark (I don't recall if Safeco is or not). If the public has financed a ballpark, then it would seem to me that there'd be a good chance, that, even though a private enterprise performs there, it would be considered a public place, where (for better or for worse) free speech would reign.

This isn't to say I don't wish some fans could show a little restraint. Then again, there're lots of things I wish...