Andruw

[moose]

Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear
I wonder if the above highlights the continuing racial biases in baseball.

A black player gets by on "natural ability" (e. g. Jones) where a "hustling" white player stretches his ability with "character" and "intelligence".

While I agree with those conceptions, that's not what I was suggesting here. I meant that Jones is the real deal, but that Edmonds has a "Jeter Effect" - that is, great looking plays because he got a bad jump/bad positioning, etc.

[SmedIndy]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/bp/1372780.html


Here's the BP analysis on Andruw. Are they trolling Netshrine for ideas?

[clemente21]

Sammy Sosa from age 22-28
year, OBP, SLG-BA, Walks
1991-22, .240, .132, 14
1992-23, .317, .133, 19
1993-24, .309, .224, 38
1994-25, .339, .245, 25
1995-26, .340, .232, 58
1996-27, .323, .291, 34
1997-28, .300, .229, 45

2001-32, .437, .400, 116

Andruw Jones from age 20-24
year, OBP, SLG-BA, Walks
1997-20, .329, .185, 56
1998-21, .321, .244, 40
1999-22, .365, .208, 76
2000-23, .366, .238, 59
2001-24, .312, .210, 56

2005-28, ??????

I'm not too worried about young Andruw.

[clemente21]

Maybe I should have read the article first! I didn't realize Joe Sheehan had compared Andruw to Sammy until after I posted...

[sweaver]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/bp/1372780.html
Here's the BP analysis on Andruw. Are they trolling Netshrine for ideas?

Ask John Brattain, our own Fleet N. Ema.

A reasonable point there about racial bias. Anybody recall the public perception of Lou Whitaker and Alan Trammell as Tigers? Meanwhile, Sweet Lou was about as consistent as you can be, getting by on "natural talent."

[Skip]

You mean Whitaker was black? or was he white? oh darn, shame on me, I didnt even notice.

[pwdennis]

While there are some bigoted fans, I think that the popularity of athletes such as Sammy Sosa and, before him, Willie Stargell, Ernie Banks, Willie McCovey and Kirby Puckett suggests that good personalities and appreciation of the fans is far more important a determinant than skin color

[tenkevcardinal]

I think comparing andruw to sosa is not a great indicator of what he will do, because sosa was a freak case who just exploded in 98 with no indicators that he would do so.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Andruw Jones is on a HOF pace right now. He doesn't have to get any better to be a HOFer; he just has to maintain where he is for a long enough career.

Andruw has not had the benefit of Coors Field, or Wrigley, or even the old Atlanta Stadium; he plays in a flat-out pitcher's park and rings up the numbers.

Andruw is what Juan Gone would be if Juan Gone played super defense in CF. I'm not crazy about that type of player (power hitters with limited plate disciplint), but Jones is the best of that type, with his defense. If Jones holds this level of play for 7 more years, and then begins a normal decline phase, wouldn't he be a HOFer then?

[gyb13]

Maybe, but I think we should lay off the "if player __ keeps this pace for ___ years, he'll be in the HOF" arguments, because they don't go anywhere - who knows what tomorrow brings?

[moose]

Originally posted by gyb13
Maybe, but I think we should lay off the "if player __ keeps this pace for ___ years, he'll be in the HOF" arguments, because they don't go anywhere - who knows what tomorrow brings?

[raising hand] Thursday?

Seriously, though, I agree w/ Gyb here. There's nothing inherently wrong or evil with conjecture, but personally it's hard to do w/ a guy as young as Jones. (Mussina, apparently, is on the other side of my imaginary line. Greg Vaughn is too, let's start the chatter!!!)

[Fuzzy Bear]

Originally posted by gyb13
Maybe, but I think we should lay off the "if player __ keeps this pace for ___ years, he'll be in the HOF" arguments, because they don't go anywhere - who knows what tomorrow brings?

Why would we want to lay off such a discussion? Isn't the reason we view a player as a disappiontment, in large part, because we saw him as someone who would have a career of historical significance, and then he turned out to not be such a player?

Isn't that why we have this discussion about Andruw? Is he contributing to his team? Yes! Does his team win? Yes! Is he a big part of their winning? Yes!

Andruw Jones is viewed as a mild disappointment because he has not yet turned out to be someone on a Mantle/Mays track. Few people ever get on that track. However, he IS on a track that leads to Cooperstown; he's easily a Lou Brock/Larry Doby level HOFer at his present level of talent (probably more talented than those two). It is relevant, in discussing Jones, who is a veteran player despite his age, of what sort of place in baseball history he has a chance to occupy.

The reason a player's niche in history is exciting is the ability to say, "I saw Mantle/Mays/Rose/Canseco play". Part of what was exciting about young Darryl Strawberry, for me, was that he was a guy with a real shot at Aaron's record (as was Canseco). Neither of them came close to that. However, the fact that both of those guys were on a pace to hit over 500 HRs (Canseco still can) establishes their peak value, and their peak is impressive.

Jones' is still a player with an chance to rack up impressive totals across the board (except for BA). How good he will become, or how good he will remain is fodder for lively baseball discussion. Why would one want to pour water on the hot stove?