My definition of sport

[gyb13]

Knowing that I'll offend some (many) of you by my comment on golf not being a 'sport,' I'd like to offer my line of reasoning.

First let me differentiate between Sport (the dictionary definition - an athletic game for diversion) and 'sport,' my definition, which I'll explain.

I believe that there are two main categories of Sports:

-There are athletic competitions, in which Man tries to push his own limits, based on certain pre-determined guiding principles. For example, the 100m dash - it is simply a matter of man vs. time. The pre-determined guiding principle is that one athlete will try to race a certain distance in the least amount of time. Other athletes will do the same, but although their performance determines the standings, it shouldn't affect other athletes' performances. Jim and Bob race. Jim finishes in 10 secs. Bob in 11 secs. Jim wins because the rule is that less time = win. But Jim had no effect on Bob's performance, and vice-versa. Another example is swimming. These Sports sometimes have guidelines that set a maximum level. In bowling, it's man vs. lane and a maximum of 300 pts. Golf is on the same level - man vs. hole, minimum possible performance of 18 strokes.

-Then there are those competitions which I call 'sports.' In these 'sports,' the activity of one athlete (or one team) has a direct influence on the performance of the opposing athlete (or team). At the individual level, tennis is a great example. You hit the ball once and your opponent must do the same, but how/whether he hits the ball again is influenced by your last shot. At the team level, well, it's easy to see how baseball, basketball, football, american football, hockey, etc. all fit this description.

You may still disagree with me and my definition of 'sport' but at least now you know why I don't consider golf to be a 'sport.'

[Duque]

Ah, I see. Difference between individual athletics and team athletics.

I did track and field and cross-country in HS - and I got sports credit!

The easiest way, for me, to judge whether or not something is a support is whether it has a fixed, objective system of evaluating performance - time, runs, points, etc. Anything that requires a judge isn't really a sport.

[gyb13]

Originally posted by Duque
Ah, I see. Difference between individual athletics and team athletics.

It's not individual vs team. By my definition, a relay race (a team Sport) is not a 'sport' but tennis (an individual Sport) is.
The nuance is whether what you do affects your opponent's performance or not.

The easiest way, for me, to judge whether or not something is a support is whether it has a fixed, objective system of evaluating performance - time, runs, points, etc. Anything that requires a judge isn't really a sport.

So what is baseball, if its 'judges' call balls/strikes, safes/outs, home runs/foul balls?

[Slippery Pedro]

Is it as easy as saying that, in sports, a defense is required? If there's no defensive effort, it's not a sport?

[Duque]

An appearance by Slippery Pedro!

There is always going to be some human error in sports, but the difference between baseball and figure skating is that the final score they have is not determined by the judges.

[moose]

I think the only place where Gyb's logic starts to slip is cwith, for example, ping-pong or billiards. To me, those are classic "non-sports," even though I love to play em. They're comparable to tennis in the adversarial sense, but they can be played in a crowded, smoky bar.

To say that ping pong is a sport but golf isn't is not in and of itself an outlandish statement, but I think that it's tough for me to support, having played both extensively and competetively (yes, I've played ping pong competetively, so sue me).

Of course, there are no true answers here. I think the best example of this is that "mainstream sport" athletes are often asked this question, and split on the issue, usually with most calling golf a sport, but with a consistent minority suggesting otherwise.

Most people I know that try to go out and play, however, tend to eventually decide it's a sport.

[gyb13]

Originally posted by Slippery Pedro
Is it as easy as saying that, in sports, a defense is required? If there's no defensive effort, it's not a sport?

Steve - multiple personality disorder strikes again?

I guess it is a similar idea to having a 'defense,' though some 'sports' (tennis comes to mind) might not have that notion.

[gyb13]

Originally posted by mussinasaHOFer
I think the only place where Gyb's logic starts to slip is with, for example, ping-pong or billiards.

A Sport is defined as an athletic game, so now it depends on how one defines 'athletics,' which is a whole different issue.

Most people I know that try to go out and play, however, tend to eventually decide it's a sport.

I did, I trained, I played, and the rest is history...

[moose]

Originally posted by gyb13

A Sport is defined as an athletic game, so now it depends on how one defines 'athletics,' which is a whole different issue.

Does that mean if Billy Beane does it, it's a sport?

[Skip]

Can I be the first to go on record as being an athletic supporter?

[hmrsf]

Originally posted by Slippery Pedro
Is it as easy as saying that, in sports, a defense is required? If there's no defensive effort, it's not a sport?

That's it! I am making a huge sign saying:

Netshrine.com loves Pedro


and bringing it to the park on Sat. Look for it on your local listings.

[Slippery Pedro]

Originally posted by hmrsf
That's it! I am making a huge sign saying:

Netshrine.com loves Pedro


and bringing it to the park on Sat. Look for it on your local listings.

Don't get ejected or arrested!

BTW, the name has nothing to do with Martinez.

I guess it is a similar idea to having a 'defense,' though some 'sports' (tennis comes to mind) might not have that notion.

G - could you not say that every time you return (or don't return) a serve/volley, you're on defense?

[satchel]

Is it okay if I ask, not to be flip, who cares whether something's a sport or not? It seems to me like a semantic distinction that doesn't carry any import.

On SportsCenter they cover golf and NASCAR. They don't cover snowboarding or motorcross. They also don't cover pro fastpitch. I'd prefer if they didn't cover football, basketball, or hockey either. (Oh, wait, that's why I watch Baseball Tonight.) The point is that what they choose to cover doesn't come from the word "Sport" in the title, it comes from what they think their viewers want to see.

Put another way, the fact that many people think (say) figure skating isn't a "sport" doesn't make it any less athletic, graceful, impressive, or (to me) entertaining to watch.

[SmedIndy]

If you like it, it's a sport.

If you don't, it's not.

[Slippery Pedro]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
If you like it, it's a sport. If you don't, it's not.

I always thought that Pamela Lee was a sport.