Mets and Rangers -- Possible Trade?

[b-ball-lunachik]

If this trade was made, who do you think benefits more?


Mets: Trade proposals could fine-tune lineup

http://www.nj.com/mets/ledger/index....5438173824.xml

Thursday, March 21, 2002


BY DAVID WALDSTEIN AND LAWRENCE ROCCA
Star-Ledger Staff

PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. -- Despite a major renovation of the team in the off-season, the Mets are still contemplating significant changes.

Recent trade talks with the Texas Rangers have expanded, with the teams discussing a deal that would send outfielder Jay Payton and pitcher Bruce Chen to Texas for right-handed setup man Luis Vizcaino and outfielder Gabe Kapler, according to an executive with a National League club who had been involved in trade talks with one of the teams.

A Mets official said general manager Steve Phillips was close to trading a minor-leaguer for the 26-year-old Vizcaino on Monday night as part of a three-team deal, but the deal stalled and now Phillips is looking to include other players.

Rangers GM John Hart is talking to the Mets about the two-for-two deal, but could pull out because he had ideas of getting a front-line starting pitcher for Kapler. Chen is considered a fourth or fifth starter at best right now, but he is only 24, is left-handed and makes just $360,000.

In fact, it appears both teams would be settling if they make this trade. Phillips had looked to get more for Payton, once a highly regarded prospect, but Payton has not lived up to expectations. Nor has Kapler yet, but he is three years younger than the 29-year-old Payton and is believed to have more potential.

Kapler provides more versatility because he can play a corner outfield position, whereas Payton is strictly a center fielder, and when Timo Perez is playing center, Payton goes to the bench. With Kapler, the Mets could use a fluid outfield rotation with Perez, Roger Cedeno and Jeromy Burnitz.

But Kapler's salary could be a stumbling block for the Mets. He will make $3.3 million in 2002 and $3.75 million next year. Payton earns $362,500 this year.

Texas has a stacked outfield with Juan Gonzalez and Carl Everett and feel Rusty Greer and Frank Catalanotto can fill in ably for Kapler.

The Yankees have also shown interest in Kapler, and there has been talk of a deal including pitcher Orlando Hernandez.

Pitching was the biggest weakness of the last-place Rangers last year, and in the off-season Hart added Chan Ho Park, Ismael Valdes and Hideki Irabu, with Kenny Rogers returning. Chen could start for them, but for the Mets, he is a reliever.

As for Payton, the Mets have been waiting years for him to become the impact hitter he was projected to be out of college, and his last, biggest supporter was Phillips. But club officials say that after the disappointing season Payton had in 2001, even Phillips was willing to concede he's not going to be the batting champion they once envisioned. To this point, Perez has played better than Payton in spring training, but Perez has minor-league options.

Kapler was a hot prospect in the Tigers organization before being traded to Texas as part of the Gonzalez deal in November 1999. In 2000, Kapler hit .302 with 14 home runs and 66 RBI in 444 at-bats in 116 games. In 134 games last season, he hit only .267 but added 17 home runs and 72 RBI.

[WiredTiger]

I would think the Mets would make out in this one. Kapler still has a shot at being a very good player. Chen looks like a 4th or 5th starter at best.

[SmedIndy]

Kapler is a much better player than either Timo or Payton.

And the writer doesn't know much about the defensive spectrum. Payton could play RF or LF easily.

[pathogan]

Kapler has more upside then Payton, chen, of course is the unknown, though 2 other orgs. have given him up,lefthanders take longer to develop,etc...still, if Texas wants to give this gift[payton's #s will never be much greater then they have been up till now, methinks],the mutts should take it.

[Fritz Buelow]

Wasn't Payton supposed to be a RH Tony Gwynn? What happened?

I still think Texas gets the better of this deal. Something is up with Vizcaino - - you only get turned over that quick if your name is Ledee.

[gyb13]

Originally posted by pathogan
lefthanders take longer to develop

That's a myth and has been disproved.

Originally posted by Fritz Buelow
Something is up with Vizcaino - - you only get turned over that quick if your name is Ledee.

Vizcaino is out of options. OAK didn't have a spot in the bullpen for him, so they pulled another smart move in getting a decent SP prospect (Duscherer). But since TX might not have a spot for Vizcaino either, they effectively gave OAK a prospect for the rights to take over OAK's problem.

[gyb13]

To reinforce my point, here's something I just found over at BP:

Leave it to the Athletics to favor a pitcher with excellent command over a pitcher with stuff. Luis Vizcaino was out of options and not likely to make a bullpen that was already crowded with nine other worthy candidates for six jobs. Even so, a guy like Mike Fyhrie might have to get outrighted, Chad Harville's status as one of the game's rare four-option players might get exercised, and Billy Beane will still have to peddle or outright one of his three left-handed Mikes (Venafro, Magnante, and Holtz).

The outstanding aspect of this is that Justin Duchscherer isn't your average warm body. Despite only average velocity, he can throw three pitches for strikes, and would be more highly regarded as a pitching prospect if he wasn't going from one organization with several to another organization with several already in their big-league rotation. He gives Oakland an alternative to Erik Hiljus for later this summer, one who just as handily has a couple of options left.

Chalk this up as a fine exercise in roster management, because Beane acquired something of value for something else of value, but more specifically a player who fit into the current collection of talent on the 40-man roster better than Vizcaino was going to.

[gyb13]

And BP's flip side:

Luis Vizcaino is out of options, and not a great bet to make the Rangers. Essentially, picking him up seems to be a calculated risk, in that the Rangers are shopping for another starting pitcher, and they want to be able to have enough stuff to offer for somebody, and an extra guy who throws hard is a nice bargaining chip. Not every team would value Justin Duchscherer the way the A's did, so to give credit where credit is due, John Hart has added somebody with more broadly marketable skills in the trade market. Of course, there's risk built in, in that the Rangers might get stuck and have to carry Vizcaino and not wind up getting that extra starting pitcher, but that's why they pay Mr. Hart the big bucks.

[hmrsf]

Duchscherer-
the shinny on him prior to the deal that trade hot AA pitching prospect from the Soxs to Texas,( in exchange for back up catcher Mirabelli)is he had just come off a near no hitter.

May 11th he threw 82/3 innings of hitless ball. His next start May 16th he pitched 6 SHO innings in a 6-0 W.

Next news I hear.......gone to Texas. Yes he is green and needs more seasoning but he was showing promise in AA.


I am not surprised that the A's have shown an interest in him.

[sweaver]

Kapler would make the Mets better in CF, but for a buff dude he's awfully fragile, and not a good bet for more than 130 games. What's Plan B? Timo?

The Rangers could use Chen, so this is an excellent deal for TExas, not bad for the Mets. Both teams could benefit, the best kind of trade.