James Lee "Kitty" Kaat

Crash Course · 09-12-2006, 05:08 PM

He pitched in the major leagues from 1959 to 1983.

Golden Bear · 09-12-2006, 07:34 PM

283 wins, 4 decades, umpteen gold gloves, plainly the best pitcher in his league in 1966, a good to very good starting pitcher for 15 seasons, hung on to pitch relief and provide veteran savvy for a WS winner in 1982, and a superb announcer in his post-playing career.

Read the sticky, folks. This guy belongs in Netshrine.

YankeeLinks · 09-12-2006, 07:40 PM

Memorable for longevity, Gold Gloves and excellent announcing

crazydiamond · 09-12-2006, 08:27 PM

144 RSAA overall is quite good, and good enough for me to vote him in. But let's build a better case for him.
From 1960-1975, only 8 other pitchers (Gibson, Seaver, Perry, Marichal, Jenkins, Niekro, Palmer) had more RSAA than Kaat (182)
Only 4 players in Senators/Twins history have a higher RSAA than Kaat (124)
In only 92 games from the White Sox, compiled 53 RSAA. Only one to do more with less for the ChiSox was Monty Stratton (56 in 70 games)

Nuclear Dish · 09-13-2006, 02:18 AM

Look, whether he really deserved them or not, the guy did win 16 Gold Gloves. That's hard to argue with.

And then throw in his better-than-average career as a pitcher, which stretched nearly 3 decades, and it's hard to keep him out.

Does he belong in the HOF? No way. Does his career deserve to be remembered? Absolutely.

When I worked for the Orioles, I had video room duty for the All-Star Game in 1993. Since I wasn't as busy as normal (I didn't have to catch each player's ABs on his own individual tape, as I did when the O's were playing), I got to spend most of my time hanging out.

On that night, it meant spending my time with Jim Kaat, who was assigned to do American League player interviews (the setup was in the back of the video room) after they were pulled from the game. What a genuinely nice guy. Just friendly as could be, knowledgeable about the game without being condescending, and pretty funny too. I've been around a lot of players, some who were nice and others who were nasty, but Jim Kaat will always be memorable to me as being one of the good guys.

RascalJones · 09-13-2006, 09:22 AM

I like how only the people that vote Yes are posting their reasons.

My reason for voting Yes is what Dish said:

"Does he belong in the HOF? No way. Does his career deserve to be remembered? Absolutely."

rc3000 · 09-13-2006, 10:14 AM

I haven't voted this one yet because I am still on the fence. I agree that he had a lot of wins and he won a lot of gold gloves. But from my memory (post 1971) I don't remember thinking of him as a top pitcher. Earlier a 15 year RSAA was given is it possible to break it down in 5 year chunks? I see the list of people he wasn't better then I am wondering about some of the people he was better then.
The longevity arguement is something that comes up a lot when I am talking to people. I tend to prefer higher peak players although there is a lot to be said for "he was good enough to last this long".

KCBOOMER · 09-13-2006, 12:41 PM

Not a great pitcher by any means, but good enough for me. No real discernible peak. Re-invented himself when he was 35 with his abbreviated wind-up delivery. Later became an adequate reliever. Would be more highly regarded if he had hung-em up after age 37.

Golden Bear · 09-13-2006, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCBOOMER

Not a great pitcher by any means, but good enough for me. No real discernible peak. Re-invented himself when he was 35 with his abbreviated wind-up delivery. Later became an adequate reliever. Would be more highly regarded if he had hung-em up after age 37.

Clearly a one year peak in 1966, where he certainly would have won the Cy if it were awarded separately in the AL and NL. '66 was the last year it was a combined ML award, and Koufax won it in his last season.

mainsr · 09-13-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCBOOMER

Would be more highly regarded if he had hung-em up after age 37.

And if he hadn't spent the last few years shilling for the Evil Empire. But he gets my vote.

Crash Course · 09-13-2006, 03:36 PM

FWIW, he's retiring from YES this Friday: http://www.waswatching.com/archives/...at_to_ret.html

rc3000 · 09-13-2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash Course

FWIW, he's retiring from YES this Friday: http://www.waswatching.com/archives/...at_to_ret.html

Ok now I can vote for him since he has seen the error of his way...

View Poll Results: Should Jim Kaat Be In NetShrine?
Yes	21	70.00%
No	9	30.00%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

09-12-2006, 05:08 PM	#1
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	James Lee "Kitty" Kaat He pitched in the major leagues from 1959 to 1983. __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

09-13-2006, 02:18 AM	#5
Nuclear Dish NetShrine All-Star Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 114	Look, whether he really deserved them or not, the guy did win 16 Gold Gloves. That's hard to argue with. And then throw in his better-than-average career as a pitcher, which stretched nearly 3 decades, and it's hard to keep him out. Does he belong in the HOF? No way. Does his career deserve to be remembered? Absolutely. When I worked for the Orioles, I had video room duty for the All-Star Game in 1993. Since I wasn't as busy as normal (I didn't have to catch each player's ABs on his own individual tape, as I did when the O's were playing), I got to spend most of my time hanging out. On that night, it meant spending my time with Jim Kaat, who was assigned to do American League player interviews (the setup was in the back of the video room) after they were pulled from the game. What a genuinely nice guy. Just friendly as could be, knowledgeable about the game without being condescending, and pretty funny too. I've been around a lot of players, some who were nice and others who were nasty, but Jim Kaat will always be memorable to me as being one of the good guys. __________________ "Sure I botched that sacrifice bunt. But look at it this way. I'm a better bunter than a million chinese guys. Those poor suckers can't bunt at all." - John Lowenstein.

09-13-2006, 09:22 AM	#6
RascalJones NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,862	I like how only the people that vote Yes are posting their reasons. My reason for voting Yes is what Dish said: "Does he belong in the HOF? No way. Does his career deserve to be remembered? Absolutely." __________________ "Baseball is dull only to dull minds." -- Red Barber, announcer "The biggest thrill a ballplayer can have is when your son takes after you. That happened when my Bobby was in his championship Little League game. He really showed me something. Struck out three times. Made an error that lost the game. Parents were throwing things at our car and swearing at us as we drove off. Gosh, I was proud." -- Bob Uecker

09-13-2006, 10:14 AM	#7
rc3000 Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 543	I haven't voted this one yet because I am still on the fence. I agree that he had a lot of wins and he won a lot of gold gloves. But from my memory (post 1971) I don't remember thinking of him as a top pitcher. Earlier a 15 year RSAA was given is it possible to break it down in 5 year chunks? I see the list of people he wasn't better then I am wondering about some of the people he was better then. The longevity arguement is something that comes up a lot when I am talking to people. I tend to prefer higher peak players although there is a lot to be said for "he was good enough to last this long". __________________ Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this Earth - Roberto Clemente

09-12-2006, 07:34 PM	#2
Golden Bear NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,100	283 wins, 4 decades, umpteen gold gloves, plainly the best pitcher in his league in 1966, a good to very good starting pitcher for 15 seasons, hung on to pitch relief and provide veteran savvy for a WS winner in 1982, and a superb announcer in his post-playing career. Read the sticky, folks. This guy belongs in Netshrine.

09-12-2006, 07:40 PM	#3
YankeeLinks NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Home of 27 World Championships Posts: 2,862	Memorable for longevity, Gold Gloves and excellent announcing

09-12-2006, 08:27 PM	#4
crazydiamond Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Walnut Creek, CA Posts: 935	144 RSAA overall is quite good, and good enough for me to vote him in. But let's build a better case for him. From 1960-1975, only 8 other pitchers (Gibson, Seaver, Perry, Marichal, Jenkins, Niekro, Palmer) had more RSAA than Kaat (182) Only 4 players in Senators/Twins history have a higher RSAA than Kaat (124) In only 92 games from the White Sox, compiled 53 RSAA. Only one to do more with less for the ChiSox was Monty Stratton (56 in 70 games)

09-13-2006, 12:41 PM	#8
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	Not a great pitcher by any means, but good enough for me. No real discernible peak. Re-invented himself when he was 35 with his abbreviated wind-up delivery. Later became an adequate reliever. Would be more highly regarded if he had hung-em up after age 37. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

09-13-2006, 03:36 PM	#11
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	FWIW, he's retiring from YES this Friday: http://www.waswatching.com/archives/...at_to_ret.html __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
James Lee "Kitty" Kaat	Crash Course	Last Names - G through M	11	10-03-2006 10:15 PM
Historical Baseball Abstract	nyy26wc	Baseball Library	55	05-26-2004 12:06 PM
Kaat v. Morris	Batman	2003 Baseball History Archives	34	10-20-2003 09:29 PM
The Bill James Guide to Baseball Managers	sweaver	Baseball Library	14	04-21-2003 12:53 PM
Vada Pinson for the HOF?	Rinkster	2002 Baseball History Archives	61	07-27-2002 02:36 PM