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| View Poll Results: Should Bob Elliott Be In NetShrine? | |||
| Yes |
  
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13 | 59.09% |
| No |
  
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9 | 40.91% |
| Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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09-13-2006, 10:21 AM
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#1 |
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NetShrine Creator & Curator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NetShrine WHQ
Posts: 10,070
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Robert Irving Elliott "Mr. Team"
He played in the major leagues from 1939 to 1953.
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Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller!  Have you read The Baseball Same Game? |
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09-13-2006, 10:34 AM
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#2 |
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NetShrine All-Century Team
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 14,584
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265 career RCAA
back to back 40+ years in 1947-48 3 years with 30+ 6 years with 20+ +1.33 RC/G vs. the league average
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Lee Creator, Complete Baseball Encyclopedia. It's powerful, yet extremely easy to use. Features extensive sorting and stat display options. The CBE has many features that are not available in online and printed sources. Has 2006 stats and daily update service for 2007. |
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09-13-2006, 10:37 AM
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#3 |
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Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 543
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Now this is interesting. My first reply was going to be sarcastic. Although I feel like I have a reasonable historical knowledge I had never heard of him. So I looked him up and was suprised to see some of the info about him:
7 time all star MVP good number of top ten finishes in many different categories. I am going to sit back and read the arguements before casting my vote. I didn't get chance to go over to Braves field a lot back in the 40's but maybe some of the other Boston Area people (RedSeat? DeepBlue?) can fill us in on the memories of seeing him play  As a side note RedSeat, if you are reading this, over the summer I met the Granddaughter of the man whose hat/head was struck by the Ted Williams home run.
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Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this Earth - Roberto Clemente |
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09-13-2006, 10:41 AM
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#4 | |
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Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 543
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Quote:
20+ = good 30+ = really good 40+=great 50+= out of this world?
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Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this Earth - Roberto Clemente |
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09-13-2006, 12:20 PM
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#5 | |
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NetShrine All-Century Team
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 14,584
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Quote:
It is a yes. As to the general question, for years I've avoided that kind of question. I prefer simply to look at the data without putting subjective labels to it.
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Lee Creator, Complete Baseball Encyclopedia. It's powerful, yet extremely easy to use. Features extensive sorting and stat display options. The CBE has many features that are not available in online and printed sources. Has 2006 stats and daily update service for 2007. |
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09-13-2006, 12:43 PM
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#6 | |
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NetShrine All-Century Team
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: ny
Posts: 1,611
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Quote:
I was going to go for a "Bob & Ray" joke, but figured many would've missed it. 
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"Cheating is baseball's oldest profession. No other game is so rich in skullduggery, so suited to it or so proud of it." - Thomas Boswell |
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09-13-2006, 01:47 PM
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#7 |
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NetShrine All-Century Team
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Home of the T-Bones
Posts: 11,116
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Elliott had your basic "under the radar" type career. He had three good seasons during WWII, but had even better ones after it. Playing for the Pirates (for dreadful teams) and then the Braves (pre-Aaron) kept him out of the media spotlight. His career OPS+ of 124 is very good. Went to a number of ASG's and did well in the MVP voting.
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KCBOOMER Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball |
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09-13-2006, 03:27 PM
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#8 | |
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Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 543
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Quote:
Fair enough. I know that you have explained RCAA a million times (probably ten times to me alone), but I assume since it is against average then a 20+ RCAA is relatively the same from year to year. It is equally impressive (?) in a hitting year (1930) as it is in a pitcher's year (1968) since the average player in that year is 0. I guess I am trying to get a basis when looking at the data when you present it. So let me ask my question a different way have you done an analysis of RCAA to determine a percentile of players that exceed 20,30 or 40 RCAA either across decades or all-time? Or should I just look at the number and say this player created 20 more runs in a given season then what the average player would have done and, to me, that seems pretty good.
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Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this Earth - Roberto Clemente |
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09-13-2006, 03:28 PM
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#9 |
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Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 543
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Oh yeah and I did vote yes. Now that he has been presented I just might remember him.
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Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this Earth - Roberto Clemente |
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09-13-2006, 03:55 PM
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#10 | |
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NetShrine All-Century Team
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 14,584
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Quote:
I think that the best approach is the latter.
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Lee Creator, Complete Baseball Encyclopedia. It's powerful, yet extremely easy to use. Features extensive sorting and stat display options. The CBE has many features that are not available in online and printed sources. Has 2006 stats and daily update service for 2007. |
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09-15-2006, 09:56 AM
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#11 |
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NetShrine MVP
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 278
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How Elliott compares to the median performance levels for current Hall of Fame third basemen:
XBH: Elliott - 646, HOF Median - 593 RBI: Elliott - 1195, HOF Median - 1144 Hits + Walks: Elliott - 3028, HOF Median - 3015 OBP: Elliott - .375, HOF Median - .365 SLG: Elliott - .440, HOF Median - .442 OPS: Elliott - .815, HOF Median - .807 OPS+: Elliott - 124, HOF Median - 121.5 I'm not sure he would belong in a Hall of Fame that had the actual ten best third basemen ever instead of five greats and five unworthy guys, but the fact that he measures up well to the real life group makes him memorable enough for NetShrine recognition.
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Mient-kie-wicz (Ment kay' vich) n. [[Polish, mientkiewicz, sub-par]] 1. less than ordinary, below average 2. inferior, especially in baseball. |
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09-15-2006, 03:21 PM
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#12 |
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NetShrine All-Century Team
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
Posts: 1,557
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Tough decision. Guy never led the league in anything, except walks, and that was just once. Top 5 in park-adjusted OPS just twice. Top 5 in OBP just once.
He's No. 18 in Win Shares, 19 in WARP-3. I'll pass.
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"Let's let bye-byes be bye-byes." --The Greatest Leadoff Hitter of All Time |
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09-15-2006, 04:43 PM
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#13 |
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NetShrine MVP
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 278
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MVP third basemen:
1947 NL - Bob Elliott 1953 AL - Al Rosen 1964 NL - Ken Boyer 1964 AL - Brooks Robinson 1969 AL - Harmon Killebrew 1971 NL - Joe Torre 1980 AL - George Brett 1980 NL - Mike Schmidt 1981 NL - Mike Schmidt 1986 NL - Mike Schmidt 1991 NL - Terry Pendleton 1996 NL - Ken Caminiti 1999 NL - Chipper Jones 2005 AL - Alex Rodriguez Looks like a pretty memorable list to me. Well, except for Pendleton. Never will figure that one out.
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Mient-kie-wicz (Ment kay' vich) n. [[Polish, mientkiewicz, sub-par]] 1. less than ordinary, below average 2. inferior, especially in baseball. |
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09-21-2006, 04:06 AM
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#14 |
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NetShrine All-Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 114
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In my opinion, Al Rosen was the best 3B of that era (50's). Bob Elliott was #2, and he was the best NL 3B.
Does that make him memorable enough to be enShrined? I'm not so sure. I'm leaning toward voting for him, but he's awfully borderline. His counting numbers are nothing special, but his OPS+ and RCAA numbers are good enough. I want to vote for him, but something is gnawing at me that he doesn't belong.
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"Sure I botched that sacrifice bunt. But look at it this way. I'm a better bunter than a million chinese guys. Those poor suckers can't bunt at all." - John Lowenstein. |
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09-21-2006, 04:08 AM
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#15 | |
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NetShrine All-Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 114
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Quote:
You mean at his position? Or do you mean in his era?
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"Sure I botched that sacrifice bunt. But look at it this way. I'm a better bunter than a million chinese guys. Those poor suckers can't bunt at all." - John Lowenstein. |
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