Big Question On the Big Hurt

Xanadu Dragon · 01-08-2002, 01:35 PM

These been so much debate here lately on Frank Thomas and Cooperstown lately, that I thought it deserved its own thread.

When I see the Big Hurt, I see a player that:

Had 8 monster offensive seasons
Had one pretty good offensive season
Had two very poor offensive seasons
Became a PT DH by the age of 26
Became a FT DH by the age of 30
Missed good chunks of time in 4 seasons.

Is 8 or 9 out of 11 enough to say HOF already?

I think he needs four more good years first - - and, at 34, that may be a tough nut for him?

SmedIndy · 01-08-2002, 01:42 PM

Anyone with his power and patience combo is definitely one to watch for a big season. I'd say he'll rebound.

TGwynn19 · 01-08-2002, 02:06 PM

If Frank never played another game then I say no he is not a HOF player. But if he plays another 3 years at .300/ .375 / .540 and then really tails off for 2-3 then he is a lock. If he plays 3 more years at .265 /.360/ .500 then I'd say he is still about 80% to get in.

Xanadu Dragon · 01-08-2002, 02:09 PM

That's my take TW.

He's Top Ten all-time in the 6000 PA range.

I'd like to see him after 9000 PA before I say yes or no for Coopestown.

TGwynn19 · 01-08-2002, 02:14 PM

Steve,

just re-read your inital post..you said that Frank had two 'very poor' seasons. Hmmm.... .265 .381 .480 and .305 .414 .471 David Segui would sign away his first born for back to back seasons like that

Xanadu Dragon · 01-08-2002, 02:21 PM

I meant 1998 and 2001.

TGwynn19 · 01-08-2002, 02:26 PM

My bad... I thought you'd give him a pass due to the injury

But still, I would not rate 1998 as 'very bad'. Without looking, it had to be about LAVG.

Xanadu Dragon · 01-08-2002, 02:48 PM

Pass, for injury? Nah. I ain't that nice.

Skip · 01-08-2002, 02:53 PM

How does Thomas the hitter's career to date compare to Koufax the pitcher? I dont have time to pull together a comparison right now, but it seems to me hard to consider Koufax a HOF'er and not Thomas.

Xanadu Dragon · 01-08-2002, 02:57 PM

I still have an issue with Koufax too - - but, that's another thread, if wanted.

If Sandy's 1st half of his career and the second half were reversed, he would not be in. Doesn't seem fair.

SmedIndy · 01-08-2002, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xanadu Dragon
I still have an issue with Koufax too - - but, that's another thread, if wanted.

If Sandy's 1st half of his career and the second half were reversed, he would not be in. Doesn't seem fair.

Well, Robin Roberts is in, and he was Koufax in reverse for the most part.

Drysdale's the one that should be ousted, not Koufax. Addie Joss deseves to be in the HOF as does Koufax.

Duque · 01-08-2002, 08:48 PM

I might've read it on these boards, but you flip Sandy Koufax's career around and you get Doc Gooden. No one seems to think Gooden should be in the Hall.

SmedIndy · 01-09-2002, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Duque
I might've read it on these boards, but you flip Sandy Koufax's career around and you get Doc Gooden. No one seems to think Gooden should be in the Hall.

I dunno about that. Koufax was more dominant than Gooden. Gooden was the bomb for just a year or two.

CubFan7125 · 01-09-2002, 06:23 PM

The Sox must be a little worried about big Frank's health, the gossip around Chicago the last few days is that they are seriously thinking about bringing Jose back. Neither Thomas Canseco play the field well anymore(Thomas never did) & Jose tends to pout when he doesn't get enough AB's, so that makes me wonder about the "Big Guy's" health. Canseco did a serviceable job last year & could probably get a contract somewhere else in at least a semi-regular role so I am not sure what to make of this.

Xanadu Dragon · 01-09-2002, 06:25 PM

Jose swears he can hack it in the OF - - maybe he's conned them?

01-08-2002, 01:35 PM	#1
Xanadu Dragon NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 2,704	Big Question On the Big Hurt These been so much debate here lately on Frank Thomas and Cooperstown lately, that I thought it deserved its own thread. When I see the Big Hurt, I see a player that: Had 8 monster offensive seasons Had one pretty good offensive season Had two very poor offensive seasons Became a PT DH by the age of 26 Became a FT DH by the age of 30 Missed good chunks of time in 4 seasons. Is 8 or 9 out of 11 enough to say HOF already? I think he needs four more good years first - - and, at 34, that may be a tough nut for him? __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator PLEASE READ: Community Standards . : ~ : PLEASE SHOP: Our Stuff! : ~ : HOW CAN YOU: Help? : ~ : BE NICE: To Your Fav Baseball Person.

01-08-2002, 02:09 PM	#4
Xanadu Dragon NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 2,704	That's my take TW. He's Top Ten all-time in the 6000 PA range. I'd like to see him after 9000 PA before I say yes or no for Coopestown. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator PLEASE READ: Community Standards . : ~ : PLEASE SHOP: Our Stuff! : ~ : HOW CAN YOU: Help? : ~ : BE NICE: To Your Fav Baseball Person.

01-08-2002, 02:21 PM	#6
Xanadu Dragon NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 2,704	I meant 1998 and 2001. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator PLEASE READ: Community Standards . : ~ : PLEASE SHOP: Our Stuff! : ~ : HOW CAN YOU: Help? : ~ : BE NICE: To Your Fav Baseball Person.

01-08-2002, 02:48 PM	#8
Xanadu Dragon NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 2,704	Pass, for injury? Nah. I ain't that nice. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator PLEASE READ: Community Standards . : ~ : PLEASE SHOP: Our Stuff! : ~ : HOW CAN YOU: Help? : ~ : BE NICE: To Your Fav Baseball Person.

01-08-2002, 02:57 PM	#10
Xanadu Dragon NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 2,704	I still have an issue with Koufax too - - but, that's another thread, if wanted. If Sandy's 1st half of his career and the second half were reversed, he would not be in. Doesn't seem fair. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator PLEASE READ: Community Standards . : ~ : PLEASE SHOP: Our Stuff! : ~ : HOW CAN YOU: Help? : ~ : BE NICE: To Your Fav Baseball Person.

01-08-2002, 01:42 PM	#2
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Anyone with his power and patience combo is definitely one to watch for a big season. I'd say he'll rebound.

01-08-2002, 02:06 PM	#3
TGwynn19 Guest Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 2,087	If Frank never played another game then I say no he is not a HOF player. But if he plays another 3 years at .300/ .375 / .540 and then really tails off for 2-3 then he is a lock. If he plays 3 more years at .265 /.360/ .500 then I'd say he is still about 80% to get in.

01-08-2002, 02:14 PM	#5
TGwynn19 Guest Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 2,087	Steve, just re-read your inital post..you said that Frank had two 'very poor' seasons. Hmmm.... .265 .381 .480 and .305 .414 .471 David Segui would sign away his first born for back to back seasons like that

01-08-2002, 02:26 PM	#7
TGwynn19 Guest Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 2,087	My bad... I thought you'd give him a pass due to the injury But still, I would not rate 1998 as 'very bad'. Without looking, it had to be about LAVG.

01-08-2002, 02:53 PM	#9
Skip NetShrine Vagabond Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisville Posts: 7,866	How does Thomas the hitter's career to date compare to Koufax the pitcher? I dont have time to pull together a comparison right now, but it seems to me hard to consider Koufax a HOF'er and not Thomas.

01-08-2002, 08:48 PM	#12
Duque NetShrine's Desperado Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Southern CA Posts: 2,638	I might've read it on these boards, but you flip Sandy Koufax's career around and you get Doc Gooden. No one seems to think Gooden should be in the Hall. __________________ Bad Andy It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.

01-09-2002, 06:23 PM	#14
CubFan7125 Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Mendota Heights, MN(Just Outside Of St Paul) Posts: 534	The Sox must be a little worried about big Frank's health, the gossip around Chicago the last few days is that they are seriously thinking about bringing Jose back. Neither Thomas Canseco play the field well anymore(Thomas never did) & Jose tends to pout when he doesn't get enough AB's, so that makes me wonder about the "Big Guy's" health. Canseco did a serviceable job last year & could probably get a contract somewhere else in at least a semi-regular role so I am not sure what to make of this. __________________ It's not a real HOF until Pete and Bert are in it

01-09-2002, 06:25 PM	#15
Xanadu Dragon NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 2,704	Jose swears he can hack it in the OF - - maybe he's conned them? __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator PLEASE READ: Community Standards . : ~ : PLEASE SHOP: Our Stuff! : ~ : HOW CAN YOU: Help? : ~ : BE NICE: To Your Fav Baseball Person.

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