Minnie Minoso v. Tim Salmon

Crash Course · 11-30-2004, 12:12 PM

Who would you rather have?

mainsr · 11-30-2004, 01:42 PM

Where do you come up with these? Minoso, after all, turned 82 yesterday.

Well, it's a bit of an unfair comparison, in that Minoso wasn't a regular until he was 28, while Salmon's been one since age 24.

RCAA: Minoso 325, Salmon 324
Park-adjusted OPS: Minoso 30% above average, Salmon 29%

But let's compare them at the same age, RCAA and park-adjusted OPS:
28: Minoso 55/+50%; Salmon 33/+36% EDGE MINOSO
29: Minoso 15/+21%; Salmon 45/+43% EDGE SALMON
30: Minoso 25/+33%; Salmon 12/+18% EDGE MINOSO
31: Minoso 48/+55%; Salmon 38/+35% EDGE MINOSO
32: Minoso 16/+16%; Salmon -5/-7% EDGE MINOSO
33: Minoso 53/+49%; Salmon 33/+36% EDGE MINOSO
34: Minoso 34/+35%; Salmon 25/+27% EDGE MINOSO
35: Minoso 33/+40%; Salmon -9/-35% EDGE MINOSO

I can't see how there can be much argument. Yes, a cutoff at age 28 screws Salmon because he had his best year at age 26 and good ones at 24, 25, and 27. But we'll never know how good Minoso might've been younger.

Also, Minoso was 205-130 as a basestealer (61%), Salmon's 48-40 (55%). Minoso won 3 Gold Gloves, played in 7 All-Star Games, and was top 5 in the MVP 4 times; Salmon's numbers are 0, 0, and 0.

Crash Course · 12-01-2004, 11:16 AM

Why slice years for Tim?
If I said "compare Spahn and Clemens" would you toss out Clemens 1st 4 years of his career?

mainsr · 12-02-2004, 07:26 AM

Because doing so would unfairly penalize Minoso, who was barred from the majors when he was young. If he were languishing in the minors, that'd be one thing; presumably, it'd indicate that Salmon was a superior ballplayer. But that's not the case. Comparisons involving guys who lost time because of military service or because of skin color should take that into account.

KCBOOMER · 12-02-2004, 09:24 AM

This is an awkward one. If you elect to ignore Minoso's late arrival to the bigs then it is a coin flip. If you, as I, give Minoso extra credit because of the race factor in his late arrival then it is a no-brainer.

11-30-2004, 12:12 PM	#1
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	Minnie Minoso v. Tim Salmon Who would you rather have? __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

11-30-2004, 01:42 PM	#2
mainsr NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Saratoga Springs, NY Posts: 1,557	Where do you come up with these? Minoso, after all, turned 82 yesterday. Well, it's a bit of an unfair comparison, in that Minoso wasn't a regular until he was 28, while Salmon's been one since age 24. RCAA: Minoso 325, Salmon 324 Park-adjusted OPS: Minoso 30% above average, Salmon 29% But let's compare them at the same age, RCAA and park-adjusted OPS: 28: Minoso 55/+50%; Salmon 33/+36% EDGE MINOSO 29: Minoso 15/+21%; Salmon 45/+43% EDGE SALMON 30: Minoso 25/+33%; Salmon 12/+18% EDGE MINOSO 31: Minoso 48/+55%; Salmon 38/+35% EDGE MINOSO 32: Minoso 16/+16%; Salmon -5/-7% EDGE MINOSO 33: Minoso 53/+49%; Salmon 33/+36% EDGE MINOSO 34: Minoso 34/+35%; Salmon 25/+27% EDGE MINOSO 35: Minoso 33/+40%; Salmon -9/-35% EDGE MINOSO I can't see how there can be much argument. Yes, a cutoff at age 28 screws Salmon because he had his best year at age 26 and good ones at 24, 25, and 27. But we'll never know how good Minoso might've been younger. Also, Minoso was 205-130 as a basestealer (61%), Salmon's 48-40 (55%). Minoso won 3 Gold Gloves, played in 7 All-Star Games, and was top 5 in the MVP 4 times; Salmon's numbers are 0, 0, and 0. __________________ "Let's let bye-byes be bye-byes." --The Greatest Leadoff Hitter of All Time

12-01-2004, 11:16 AM	#3
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	Why slice years for Tim? If I said "compare Spahn and Clemens" would you toss out Clemens 1st 4 years of his career? __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

12-02-2004, 07:26 AM	#4
mainsr NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Saratoga Springs, NY Posts: 1,557	Because doing so would unfairly penalize Minoso, who was barred from the majors when he was young. If he were languishing in the minors, that'd be one thing; presumably, it'd indicate that Salmon was a superior ballplayer. But that's not the case. Comparisons involving guys who lost time because of military service or because of skin color should take that into account. __________________ "Let's let bye-byes be bye-byes." --The Greatest Leadoff Hitter of All Time

12-02-2004, 09:24 AM	#5
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	This is an awkward one. If you elect to ignore Minoso's late arrival to the bigs then it is a coin flip. If you, as I, give Minoso extra credit because of the race factor in his late arrival then it is a no-brainer. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

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