Johan Santana v. Randy Johnson

Crash Course · 10-05-2004, 11:31 PM

Which pitcher was better in 2004 and why?

Ytown Tribe fan · 10-06-2004, 07:53 PM

Going with Santana.

Here are some of the numbers:

P ... Santana ... Unit

IP ... 228.0 ... 245.7
ERA ... 2.61 ... 2.60
RA ... 2.76 ... 3.22
FIP ... 3.16 ... 2.33
WS ... 26.8 ... 26.9
WSAA ... 15 ... 13
RSAA ... 57 ... 38

KCBOOMER · 10-06-2004, 10:57 PM

Yeah, I'll go with Santana for the reasons outlined above, but he did pitch for a much better team than RJ did.

Crash Course · 10-06-2004, 11:38 PM

Unit only had 38 RSAA?

nyy26wc · 10-06-2004, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash Course

Unit only had 38 RSAA?

No. He had 50.

Crash Course · 10-07-2004, 12:11 AM

That's what I thought - hence the question on who was better.

Ytown Tribe fan · 10-07-2004, 08:53 PM

My figures were obtained from The Hardball Times, which lists Johnson as having 38 RSAA in the final NL pitching stats section. I cannot verify their numbers, but I do use them all the time.

Crash Course · 10-07-2004, 11:21 PM

Lee better straighten out those THT guys!

nyy26wc · 10-08-2004, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash Course

Lee better straighten out those THT guys!

1) They said they made a typo in entering the formula, so all of their numbers are wrong.
2) We have irreconsirable differences on whether single year or multi year park factors should be applied to single season stats. So, even with the formula corrected, we are going to come up with different results. As a solution, they are changing their stat and are calling it RAA.

Crash Course · 10-08-2004, 10:16 AM

good job Lee

Ytown Tribe fan · 10-08-2004, 07:22 PM

Thanks Lee.

Look at the difference in unearned runs between the two: Santana has apparently benefited from a much better defense than Unit. Then there's the big gap in FIP.

Unit may not only be betterthan his W-L record indicates, but better than his ERA-based stats indicate as well; the opposite may be true of Santana.

I'd go with Unit, in that case.

Crash Course · 10-08-2004, 11:52 PM

I'll bite. What's FIP?

captain_napalm · 10-11-2004, 10:20 AM

Fielding Independent Pitching

Crash Course · 10-11-2004, 10:28 AM

Thanks.

Crash Course · 11-09-2004, 02:03 PM

Code:

SEASON
2004

INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria
BASERUNNERS/9 IP vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
STRIKEOUTS/9 IP vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
STRIKEOUTS/WALKS vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
NEUTRAL WINS displayed only--not a sorting criteria

RSAA                           RSAA      IP     BR/9 IP   SO/9 IP    SO/BB     N_W    
1    Johan Santana                54    228       4.50     4.01     2.98       19   
2    Randy Johnson                50    245.2     4.38     3.89     4.60       22

Would command be enough to go with the Unit?

10-05-2004, 11:31 PM	#1
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	Johan Santana v. Randy Johnson Which pitcher was better in 2004 and why? __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

10-06-2004, 10:57 PM	#3
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	Yeah, I'll go with Santana for the reasons outlined above, but he did pitch for a much better team than RJ did. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

10-06-2004, 11:38 PM	#4
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	Unit only had 38 RSAA? __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

10-07-2004, 12:11 AM	#6
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	That's what I thought - hence the question on who was better. __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

10-07-2004, 11:21 PM	#8
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	Lee better straighten out those THT guys! __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

10-06-2004, 07:53 PM	#2
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Going with Santana. Here are some of the numbers: P ... Santana ... Unit IP ... 228.0 ... 245.7 ERA ... 2.61 ... 2.60 RA ... 2.76 ... 3.22 FIP ... 3.16 ... 2.33 WS ... 26.8 ... 26.9 WSAA ... 15 ... 13 RSAA ... 57 ... 38

10-07-2004, 08:53 PM	#7
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	My figures were obtained from The Hardball Times, which lists Johnson as having 38 RSAA in the final NL pitching stats section. I cannot verify their numbers, but I do use them all the time.

10-08-2004, 10:16 AM	#10
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	good job Lee __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

10-08-2004, 07:22 PM	#11
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Thanks Lee. Look at the difference in unearned runs between the two: Santana has apparently benefited from a much better defense than Unit. Then there's the big gap in FIP. Unit may not only be betterthan his W-L record indicates, but better than his ERA-based stats indicate as well; the opposite may be true of Santana. I'd go with Unit, in that case.

10-08-2004, 11:52 PM	#12
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	I'll bite. What's FIP? __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

10-11-2004, 10:20 AM	#13
captain_napalm NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ny Posts: 1,611	Fielding Independent Pitching __________________ "Cheating is baseball's oldest profession. No other game is so rich in skullduggery, so suited to it or so proud of it." - Thomas Boswell

10-11-2004, 10:28 AM	#14
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	Thanks. __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

11-09-2004, 02:03 PM	#15
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	Code: SEASON 2004 INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria BASERUNNERS/9 IP vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria STRIKEOUTS/9 IP vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria STRIKEOUTS/WALKS vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria NEUTRAL WINS displayed only--not a sorting criteria RSAA RSAA IP BR/9 IP SO/9 IP SO/BB N_W 1 Johan Santana 54 228 4.50 4.01 2.98 19 2 Randy Johnson 50 245.2 4.38 3.89 4.60 22 Would command be enough to go with the Unit? __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

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