Edgar Martinez v. Mark McGwire

Crash Course · 11-08-2004, 11:45 AM

McGwire played in parts of 16 seasons. Martinez played in parts of 18 seasons. McGwire had 7,660 PA. Martinez had 8,672 PA. McGwire had 665 RCAA and Martinez had 647.

At first blush, the call here would say that Mark did more than Edgar in less chances.

But, when you look at seasons, you will see that:

Edgar Martinez had 7 seasons with an OWP of .750+ and Mark McGwire had 6 such seasons.

Edgar Martinez had 10 seasons where his RC/G versus the league average was 2+ whereas Mark McGwire had 6 such seasons.

Edgar Martinez had 7 seasons with 275+ Total Bases whereas Mark McGwire had 5 such seasons.

Edgar Martinez had 7 seasons with .6+ Bases Per PA whereas Mark McGwire had 6 such seasons.

In many ways, Martinez had a more productive carrer with the bat than McGwire. But, Martinez was a DH and McGwire hit 583 homeruns.

And, McGwire will be a first ballot Cooperstown HOF entry whereas Martinez, well, we just don't know how the voters will handle him. It will a shame if McGwire marches right into Cooperstown and Martinez has to hang in the wind. Edgar deserves the same respect that Mark has earned.

KCBOOMER · 11-08-2004, 05:01 PM

Chicks (and writers) dig the long ball.

pwdennis · 11-24-2004, 10:30 PM

I think that using seassons as a criterion is a bit misleading. I liked Edgar a lot but in seasons where McGwire was healthy, there was no batter pitchers would have rather not faced than McGwire (including Bonds who really bloomed after Big Mac's peak years) Big Mac's career adjusted OPS+ of 163 is quite a bit better than that of Martinez

Crash Course · 11-25-2004, 09:12 AM

OPS+ compare is 163 v. 147 for Martinez.
16 points is "quite a bit better"?

nyy26wc · 11-25-2004, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash Course

OPS+ compare is 163 v. 147 for Martinez.
16 points is "quite a bit better"?

First of all, your numbers are wrong. They look like they came from baseball-reference.com, which computes OPS+ in a goofy manner that results in the distance between the figure and 100 from being doubled.

The SBE can give you the numbers computed in the normal player OPS divided by league OPS manner.

When you take out that bias in the numbers, the gap drops to 8 points, 131 to 123. (the numbers only look like they are almost half the distance from 100 as the numbers cited by Steve, only because of rounding). Among players with 7500+ PA, McGwire ranks 11th, Martinez 34th.

11-08-2004, 11:45 AM	#1
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	Edgar Martinez v. Mark McGwire McGwire played in parts of 16 seasons. Martinez played in parts of 18 seasons. McGwire had 7,660 PA. Martinez had 8,672 PA. McGwire had 665 RCAA and Martinez had 647. At first blush, the call here would say that Mark did more than Edgar in less chances. But, when you look at seasons, you will see that: Edgar Martinez had 7 seasons with an OWP of .750+ and Mark McGwire had 6 such seasons. Edgar Martinez had 10 seasons where his RC/G versus the league average was 2+ whereas Mark McGwire had 6 such seasons. Edgar Martinez had 7 seasons with 275+ Total Bases whereas Mark McGwire had 5 such seasons. Edgar Martinez had 7 seasons with .6+ Bases Per PA whereas Mark McGwire had 6 such seasons. In many ways, Martinez had a more productive carrer with the bat than McGwire. But, Martinez was a DH and McGwire hit 583 homeruns. And, McGwire will be a first ballot Cooperstown HOF entry whereas Martinez, well, we just don't know how the voters will handle him. It will a shame if McGwire marches right into Cooperstown and Martinez has to hang in the wind. Edgar deserves the same respect that Mark has earned. __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

11-08-2004, 05:01 PM	#2
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	Chicks (and writers) dig the long ball. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

11-24-2004, 10:30 PM	#3
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	I think that using seassons as a criterion is a bit misleading. I liked Edgar a lot but in seasons where McGwire was healthy, there was no batter pitchers would have rather not faced than McGwire (including Bonds who really bloomed after Big Mac's peak years) Big Mac's career adjusted OPS+ of 163 is quite a bit better than that of Martinez __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

11-25-2004, 09:12 AM	#4
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	OPS+ compare is 163 v. 147 for Martinez. 16 points is "quite a bit better"? __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Sunday stat package--September 5	nyy26wc	Around The Majors Reports	14	09-05-2004 11:37 AM
Sunday stat package--August 22	nyy26wc	Around The Majors Reports	13	08-22-2004 10:41 AM
Sunday stat package--August 8	nyy26wc	Around The Majors Reports	13	08-08-2004 12:44 PM
Edgar Martinez, DH...batting coach?	sweaver	2003 Active Player News, Analysis, & Commentary Archives	9	11-05-2003 06:07 AM
Diamondbacks dump Williams; Scioscia insults Edgar Martinez	nyy26wc	Around The Majors Reports	1	06-01-2003 01:20 PM