AL Cy Young

RascalJones · 09-23-2004, 11:03 AM

I thought there was another thread on this, but I couldn't find it.

How can anyone consider giving Schilling the Cy Young Award in the AL? Johann Santana has BLOWN him and the rest of the league away this year.

Code:

Name            Team G    GS    W    L    SV    CG    SHO    IP    H       R    ER    HR    BB    K    ERA    WHIP    BAA    
 Johan Santana  MIN 32    32    19    6    0    1    1    217.0    151    68    64    24    49    254    2.65    0.92    .195    
 Curt Schilling BOS 31    31    20    6    0    3    0    219.2    205    82    80    23    31    197    3.28    1.07    .244

TimmyB · 09-23-2004, 12:02 PM

I think Foulke helped Santana a lot Tuesday night. Some voters get stuck on the W/L, and Schilling's (theoretical) 21 (to date) would have looked prettier than Santana's (to date) 19. Now, there's just 1 W separating them which will force even the biggest SABR bashers among the BBWAA to look a little further than the Ws.

The rest of the numbers are solidly in Santana's favor. Both guys have been very, very good... but, on the margins of that very, very good, Santana has been much better.

Crash Course · 09-23-2004, 12:47 PM

What Timmy said.

KCBOOMER · 09-23-2004, 05:06 PM

Schilling has been more high profile than the Santana throughout his career and has finished 2nd a few times in the balloting. Some of the ESPN guys are waking up to Santana and in my mind that makes him a mortal lock to win the CYA.

Ytown Tribe fan · 09-23-2004, 06:08 PM

I'd start thinking about MVP votes for Santana.

There are currently three players with more Win Shares than Johan -- all three are Yanks, with Shef leading the way. Vlad, Manny, Ortiz, Ichiro, -- everyone else is below Santana in Win Shares.

He also leads his team by a greater margin than anyone other than Ichiro -- although the Twins would likely still make the playoffs without him, but would have a tougher battle with the ChiSox.

Cy Young? Last I looked Santana had 49 RSAA, Schilling was a distant 2nd with 36. That race is over.

manny tortolero · 09-24-2004, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ytown Tribe fan

I'd start thinking about MVP votes for Santana.

There are currently three players with more Win Shares than Johan -- all three are Yanks, with Shef leading the way. Vlad, Manny, Ortiz, Ichiro, -- everyone else is below Santana in Win Shares.

He also leads his team by a greater margin than anyone other than Ichiro -- although the Twins would likely still make the playoffs without him, but would have a tougher battle with the ChiSox.

Cy Young? Last I looked Santana had 49 RSAA, Schilling was a distant 2nd with 36. That race is over.

It's funny but with Santana probably getting the Triple Crown, I was looking in recent years if any pitcher with this achivement has won the MVP and only found Sandy Koufax in the distant 1963. Neither Pedro in 1999 (second in the voting) or Clemens in 1997 and 1998 or Johnson in 2002 or Gooden in 1985 or Carlton in 1972.

mgoettsche · 09-24-2004, 02:25 PM

Good point, Y-Town...he should finish high in the MVP balloting...just an absolute monster year. I shudder to think what might have been if his mechanics were corrected in mid-April instead of mid-May.

Ytown Tribe fan · 09-24-2004, 07:15 PM

Clemens won it in '86, although Boggs would've been a good choice too. He was the last pitcher to win the MVP award.

Before that you had Willie Hernandez in '84, which was not a great choice, and Rollie Fingers in '81.

Pedro got kind of jobbed in '99. I expect Johan to finish about 6th, behind a couple of Yanks, a couple of BoSox, and Ichiro. If they give the CYA to Schilling, then Kurt may get some MVP love too. It wouldn't be an awful selection unless Santana finished worse than 2nd in the CYA voting.

mainsr · 09-24-2004, 09:29 PM

I could see Guerrero ahead of Santana as well.

As for the Cy, I almost expect the voters to screw up (I haven't gotten over Sosa in '98 or Clemens in '01), but Santana has come on so strong--he's 11-0, 1.27 ERA since the Break, and he's 2-hitting the Tribe as I write this--that I've got to believe the voters will actually do the right thing. There's an awards poll going on right now on ESPN, which is a good proxy for how sportswriters think, and Santana leads Schilling 72%-23% (and Manny's leading Sheffield by a comfortable magin.)

Totally unrelated, Neyer wrote a couple days that the "Yankees...lead the American League in road scoring (and you'll never believe who's second)."

Yanks have scored 5.75 runs per road game (which, as you know, is one of the better gauges of team offense). After that:
Tigers 5.62
Cleveland 5.56

Neyer got me; I never would've guessed.

mgoettsche · 09-26-2004, 12:48 AM

Yep, glad Santana got to 20...I don't believe the voters would have done the right thing if he ended up with only 17 or 18.

09-23-2004, 11:03 AM	#1
RascalJones NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,862	AL Cy Young I thought there was another thread on this, but I couldn't find it. How can anyone consider giving Schilling the Cy Young Award in the AL? Johann Santana has BLOWN him and the rest of the league away this year. Code: Name Team G GS W L SV CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA Johan Santana MIN 32 32 19 6 0 1 1 217.0 151 68 64 24 49 254 2.65 0.92 .195 Curt Schilling BOS 31 31 20 6 0 3 0 219.2 205 82 80 23 31 197 3.28 1.07 .244 __________________ "Baseball is dull only to dull minds." -- Red Barber, announcer "The biggest thrill a ballplayer can have is when your son takes after you. That happened when my Bobby was in his championship Little League game. He really showed me something. Struck out three times. Made an error that lost the game. Parents were throwing things at our car and swearing at us as we drove off. Gosh, I was proud." -- Bob Uecker

09-23-2004, 12:47 PM	#3
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	What Timmy said. __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

09-23-2004, 05:06 PM	#4
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	Schilling has been more high profile than the Santana throughout his career and has finished 2nd a few times in the balloting. Some of the ESPN guys are waking up to Santana and in my mind that makes him a mortal lock to win the CYA. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

09-23-2004, 06:08 PM	#5
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	I'd start thinking about MVP votes for Santana. There are currently three players with more Win Shares than Johan -- all three are Yanks, with Shef leading the way. Vlad, Manny, Ortiz, Ichiro, -- everyone else is below Santana in Win Shares. He also leads his team by a greater margin than anyone other than Ichiro -- although the Twins would likely still make the playoffs without him, but would have a tougher battle with the ChiSox. Cy Young? Last I looked Santana had 49 RSAA, Schilling was a distant 2nd with 36. That race is over. Last edited by Ytown Tribe fan : 09-23-2004 at 06:12 PM.

09-24-2004, 09:29 PM	#9
mainsr NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Saratoga Springs, NY Posts: 1,557	I could see Guerrero ahead of Santana as well. As for the Cy, I almost expect the voters to screw up (I haven't gotten over Sosa in '98 or Clemens in '01), but Santana has come on so strong--he's 11-0, 1.27 ERA since the Break, and he's 2-hitting the Tribe as I write this--that I've got to believe the voters will actually do the right thing. There's an awards poll going on right now on ESPN, which is a good proxy for how sportswriters think, and Santana leads Schilling 72%-23% (and Manny's leading Sheffield by a comfortable magin.) Totally unrelated, Neyer wrote a couple days that the "Yankees...lead the American League in road scoring (and you'll never believe who's second)." Yanks have scored 5.75 runs per road game (which, as you know, is one of the better gauges of team offense). After that: Tigers 5.62 Cleveland 5.56 Neyer got me; I never would've guessed. __________________ "Let's let bye-byes be bye-byes." --The Greatest Leadoff Hitter of All Time

09-23-2004, 12:02 PM	#2
TimmyB NetShrine's Magic 8-Ball Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Where the cops speak slow and the air is nice Posts: 2,591	I think Foulke helped Santana a lot Tuesday night. Some voters get stuck on the W/L, and Schilling's (theoretical) 21 (to date) would have looked prettier than Santana's (to date) 19. Now, there's just 1 W separating them which will force even the biggest SABR bashers among the BBWAA to look a little further than the Ws. The rest of the numbers are solidly in Santana's favor. Both guys have been very, very good... but, on the margins of that very, very good, Santana has been much better.

09-24-2004, 02:25 PM	#7
mgoettsche All-NetShrine Team Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 375	Good point, Y-Town...he should finish high in the MVP balloting...just an absolute monster year. I shudder to think what might have been if his mechanics were corrected in mid-April instead of mid-May.

09-24-2004, 07:15 PM	#8
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Clemens won it in '86, although Boggs would've been a good choice too. He was the last pitcher to win the MVP award. Before that you had Willie Hernandez in '84, which was not a great choice, and Rollie Fingers in '81. Pedro got kind of jobbed in '99. I expect Johan to finish about 6th, behind a couple of Yanks, a couple of BoSox, and Ichiro. If they give the CYA to Schilling, then Kurt may get some MVP love too. It wouldn't be an awful selection unless Santana finished worse than 2nd in the CYA voting.

09-26-2004, 12:48 AM	#10
mgoettsche All-NetShrine Team Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 375	Yep, glad Santana got to 20...I don't believe the voters would have done the right thing if he ended up with only 17 or 18.

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