Sheffield v. Sosa

Crash Course · 08-17-2004, 12:31 PM

If their careers ended today, who has had the better lifetime batting record, Sammy Sosa or Gary Sheffield?

KCBOOMER · 08-17-2004, 01:00 PM

To me this isn't even close, it's Sheffield by a mile. All of Sosa's value is wrapped up in 1998-2003 where he accumulated a staggering 362 RCAA's. Prior to that he had a negative career RCAA. Sheffield to date has 565 RCAA. Sheffield also has a wide margin in OWP (.702 versus .619) and OPS versus the league (+.171 versus +.134).

Even though Sosa and Sheffield are the same age (35) Sosa seems to be showing the signs of serious decline more than Sheffield.

RascalJones · 08-17-2004, 01:08 PM

and yet, Sheff is the one considering retirement.

TimmyB · 08-17-2004, 01:13 PM

Amazing what a HR record race will do for one's rep.

Sosa has the sexier power numbers, but Sheff is very solid with quality OPS numbers (a little higher on-base, a whisker lighter in power). Sammy had one solid peak -- '98 through '02 (maybe '03), where Sheff has spread it around a little more.

Pretty close. I'd call it a tie.

Golden Bear · 08-18-2004, 03:10 AM

I'm going to be my usual Luddite self. Hello? Sosa has 564 HR last I checked. #8 all time, and he's going to be #5 before next year's All-Star game barring injury. Probably in the 600 club by the close of 2005. Him, Mays, Ruth, Aaron, Bonds.

Sheffield does a whole lot of things very well, and any team would be lucky to have him, but he's got a lot of ground to make up there IMHO.

Crash Course · 08-18-2004, 09:36 AM

GB - Jose Canseco and Dave Kingman have a lot of HRs too.

RascalJones · 08-18-2004, 10:22 AM

And now, Sammy's being booed at Wrigley. I always thought Cubs fans were good fans until the way that they came down on Steve Bartman last year (and no one got on Alex Gonzalez's case) and now on Sosa.

Phooey on you Cubs fans.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...hil&id=1860996

captain_napalm · 08-18-2004, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RascalJones

and yet, Sheff is the one considering retirement.

Yeah, but it more to do with his aching shoulder, than his offensive production

Makofan · 08-18-2004, 01:31 PM

If you just compare their away stats, you remove Wrigley from the equation. They are remarkably similar players, except Sheff is a lot better at getting on base. They are both mediocre fielders at best. I'll take Shef, but Sosa ain't so bad. Dawson is better than Sosa though

Code:

        G   AB   R    H  2B 3B  HR RBI  BB    K  SB CS  AVG  OBP  SLG  OPS 
Shef  997 3682 641 1088 189 13 204 684 555  461 108 52 .295 .390 .520 .910 
Sosa 1041 3987 675 1087 172 16 264 731 399 1079 124 52 .273 .341 .522 .864

mgoettsche · 08-18-2004, 04:02 PM

Better lifetime batting record...better lifetimte batting record...

Gotta go with Sheff by a nose, although Sosa's HR's are hard to ignore.

Golden Bear · 08-18-2004, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crash Course

GB - Jose Canseco and Dave Kingman have a lot of HRs too.

Over 100 less than Slammin' Sammy -- and counting.

Crash Course · 08-18-2004, 04:37 PM

Sammy's just past Kingman, and not that far from Jose:

Code:

1962-2003
RIGHT HANDED HITTERS - HR vs. Lge Avg

HOMERUNS                        DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
1    Mark McGwire                405      583      178   
2    Mike Schmidt                367      548      181   
3    Hank Aaron                  334      502      168   
4    Sammy Sosa                  317      539      222   
5    Dave Kingman                285      442      157   
6    Harmon Killebrew            280      443      163   
7    Jose Canseco                254      462      208   
8    Juan Gonzalez               241      429      188   
T9   Frank Thomas                227      418      191   
T9   Frank Robinson              227      384      157

Makofan · 08-18-2004, 04:53 PM

Hank Aaron, Frank Thomas and Harmon Killebrew hit a fair number of homers before 1962; that would drop Sammy doen a few notches

Crash Course · 08-18-2004, 04:59 PM

I know - I wanted to just grab Canseco, Kingman, and Sammy's totals - for a compare, asnd used 1962 as a starting point.

Makofan · 08-18-2004, 06:51 PM

I don't like Qty above average or RCAA that much; it is easier to get a good plus in high scoring eras. Quantitatively, Sammy is only

243% better at hiitng homers while King Kong is 282% better.

Still, just doubling Sammy's road numbers gives him Hall of Fame stats

View Poll Results: Who has the better lifetime batting record, Sammy or Sheffield?
Sosa	1	9.09%
Sheffield	8	72.73%
It's a tie	0	0%
Not sure	2	18.18%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

08-17-2004, 12:31 PM	#1
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	Sheffield v. Sosa If their careers ended today, who has had the better lifetime batting record, Sammy Sosa or Gary Sheffield? __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

08-17-2004, 01:00 PM	#2
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	To me this isn't even close, it's Sheffield by a mile. All of Sosa's value is wrapped up in 1998-2003 where he accumulated a staggering 362 RCAA's. Prior to that he had a negative career RCAA. Sheffield to date has 565 RCAA. Sheffield also has a wide margin in OWP (.702 versus .619) and OPS versus the league (+.171 versus +.134). Even though Sosa and Sheffield are the same age (35) Sosa seems to be showing the signs of serious decline more than Sheffield. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

08-17-2004, 01:08 PM	#3
RascalJones NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,862	and yet, Sheff is the one considering retirement. __________________ "Baseball is dull only to dull minds." -- Red Barber, announcer "The biggest thrill a ballplayer can have is when your son takes after you. That happened when my Bobby was in his championship Little League game. He really showed me something. Struck out three times. Made an error that lost the game. Parents were throwing things at our car and swearing at us as we drove off. Gosh, I was proud." -- Bob Uecker

08-18-2004, 09:36 AM	#6
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	GB - Jose Canseco and Dave Kingman have a lot of HRs too. __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

08-17-2004, 01:13 PM	#4
TimmyB NetShrine's Magic 8-Ball Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Where the cops speak slow and the air is nice Posts: 2,591	Amazing what a HR record race will do for one's rep. Sosa has the sexier power numbers, but Sheff is very solid with quality OPS numbers (a little higher on-base, a whisker lighter in power). Sammy had one solid peak -- '98 through '02 (maybe '03), where Sheff has spread it around a little more. Pretty close. I'd call it a tie.

08-18-2004, 03:10 AM	#5
Golden Bear NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,100	I'm going to be my usual Luddite self. Hello? Sosa has 564 HR last I checked. #8 all time, and he's going to be #5 before next year's All-Star game barring injury. Probably in the 600 club by the close of 2005. Him, Mays, Ruth, Aaron, Bonds. Sheffield does a whole lot of things very well, and any team would be lucky to have him, but he's got a lot of ground to make up there IMHO.

08-18-2004, 10:22 AM	#7
RascalJones NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,862	And now, Sammy's being booed at Wrigley. I always thought Cubs fans were good fans until the way that they came down on Steve Bartman last year (and no one got on Alex Gonzalez's case) and now on Sosa. Phooey on you Cubs fans. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...hil&id=1860996 __________________ "Baseball is dull only to dull minds." -- Red Barber, announcer "The biggest thrill a ballplayer can have is when your son takes after you. That happened when my Bobby was in his championship Little League game. He really showed me something. Struck out three times. Made an error that lost the game. Parents were throwing things at our car and swearing at us as we drove off. Gosh, I was proud." -- Bob Uecker

08-18-2004, 01:31 PM	#9
Makofan Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 791	If you just compare their away stats, you remove Wrigley from the equation. They are remarkably similar players, except Sheff is a lot better at getting on base. They are both mediocre fielders at best. I'll take Shef, but Sosa ain't so bad. Dawson is better than Sosa though Code: G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS Shef 997 3682 641 1088 189 13 204 684 555 461 108 52 .295 .390 .520 .910 Sosa 1041 3987 675 1087 172 16 264 731 399 1079 124 52 .273 .341 .522 .864

08-18-2004, 04:02 PM	#10
mgoettsche All-NetShrine Team Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 375	Better lifetime batting record...better lifetimte batting record... Gotta go with Sheff by a nose, although Sosa's HR's are hard to ignore.

08-18-2004, 04:37 PM	#12
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	Sammy's just past Kingman, and not that far from Jose: Code: 1962-2003 RIGHT HANDED HITTERS - HR vs. Lge Avg HOMERUNS DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE 1 Mark McGwire 405 583 178 2 Mike Schmidt 367 548 181 3 Hank Aaron 334 502 168 4 Sammy Sosa 317 539 222 5 Dave Kingman 285 442 157 6 Harmon Killebrew 280 443 163 7 Jose Canseco 254 462 208 8 Juan Gonzalez 241 429 188 T9 Frank Thomas 227 418 191 T9 Frank Robinson 227 384 157 __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

08-18-2004, 04:53 PM	#13
Makofan Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 791	Hank Aaron, Frank Thomas and Harmon Killebrew hit a fair number of homers before 1962; that would drop Sammy doen a few notches

08-18-2004, 04:59 PM	#14
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	I know - I wanted to just grab Canseco, Kingman, and Sammy's totals - for a compare, asnd used 1962 as a starting point. __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

08-18-2004, 06:51 PM	#15
Makofan Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 791	I don't like Qty above average or RCAA that much; it is easier to get a good plus in high scoring eras. Quantitatively, Sammy is only 243% better at hiitng homers while King Kong is 282% better. Still, just doubling Sammy's road numbers gives him Hall of Fame stats

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