Messing With Our Sport

[nightal]

As a longtime baseball fan, baseball is still the only sport that can make me remember my youth and how I felt about the players of old, which were my first heroes.
Basketball(pro), and Football have not been able to keep my longtime interest like baseball has.
Being among real fans on netshrine, my question is who or what people or occurences etc., has made you shake your head and wonder if you still wanted to follow the greatest game ever??

Mine: in no particular order--
the 1994 player strike
bud selig
pete rose(as a bettor only, not as a player)
free agency, which led to obscene salaries
hotdogging,charging the mound almost evertime a batter gets hit etc.
the ability to see almost every every game every day, which took some of the mystery away from the game.
wildcard & division playoffs. Too many teams making playoffs.

This is just a start, wade in folks

[Skipper Steve]

The stupidity and gall of the owners.

[sweaver]

I'll agree with that list, except for the games on TV part. I like being able to see a game almost every day, and sometimes more than one.

Free agency is a bit frustrating for us fans, but I think it's only fair for the players. After all, you and I can leave our employers and go work somewhere else if we want to do so. I did, just this summer.

All of the above except the last two. Add the Black Sox scandal and my head can be considered shaken.

I think Giambi once said "no more hometown discount for the A's" after they'd refused his no-trade offer. I've since heard Juan Gone say this, so I figure it seemed catchy and more in the "me, me, me, pay me more" nouveau way of doing things. Ugh!

[sweaver]

Originally posted by Skipper Steve
The stupidity and gall of the owners.

Oh, Steve, that's been around since the beginning. You just notice it more now that you are older.

[Skipper Steve]

Yog, you were around in 1919? Please say yes - - it would explain a lot.

[nightal]

I guess what I meant with regard to seeing too much baseball is, when I was a kid I would swipe the old man's sportspage to see the boxes of the west coast games to see how this Ryan or Tanana or Bill Singer did when they pitched. We rarely got to see these guys on the old "game of the week". It added a lot of mystery, which could only be satisfied with an imagination.(Or Strat-O-Matic games).

Originally posted by sweaver
Free agency is a bit frustrating for us fans, but I think it's only fair for the players. After all, you and I can leave our employers and go work somewhere else if we want to do so. I did, just this summer.

Free agency is a major glutal pain that you can't scratch, but if you didn't have this, teams would need to homegrow their own people. One team would have too many SS's, another, lots of great arms but no OF. I mean who knows which farmhand will develop into a star?

It's either plant your crops very carefully and nurture them to harvest or got to the store and buy someone shiny and new. Sickening, but you've got two choices and everyone wishes for a third. What else are you going to do if you need that player who does well at that position you need? Kaching.

Originally posted by Skipper Steve
Yog, you were around in 1919? Please say yes - - it would explain a lot.

I'm about a year older than you so what's the hubbub, bub? It's just that some things made me say "this is the game I love? OMG!"

BTW, what would it explain? You trying to tell me something?

[nightal]

I don't seem to remember old timers admiring their home runs like they do now. Correct me if I am wrong.
When Lou Brock broke the stolen base record, he humbly removed his cap looked around the stadium, and saluted the fans while smiling almost sheepishly.
When Henderson broke Brock's record, he behaved like a jackass pulling the base out and of course proclaiming "I am the greatest". The only good to come out of this, is Ryan pitched a no-hitter later that night to put the greatest in the "second story" slot.
I do miss the old time owners, these current guys think everyone that is a baseball fan is a total idiot.

[sweaver]

Originally posted by Yogi#8Fan
Free agency is a major glutal pain that you can't scratch, but if you didn't have this, teams would need to homegrow their own people. One team would have too many SS's, another, lots of great arms but no OF. I mean who knows which farmhand will develop into a star?

What else are you going to do if you need that player who does well at that position you need? Kaching.

Yog, I am old enough to remember pre-Free Agency days, and it worked the same as it does now, only there were more trades. I think men deserve more say over where they work. It is too mercenary, but welcome to America.

[sweaver]

Originally posted by nightal
When Henderson broke Brock's record, he behaved like a jackass pulling the base out and of course proclaiming "I am the greatest".
I do miss the old time owners, these current guys think everyone that is a baseball fan is a total idiot.

The old players and owners just weren't as showy. It's a society thing. America used to be about John Wayne and being the strong silent type, now it's all trash talk. Not just baseball, the whole country.

[Skipper Steve]

Originally posted by sweaver
America used to be about John Wayne and being the strong silent type, now it's all trash talk. Not just baseball, the whole country.

Sadly true.

Yog - - - the question was:

who or what people or occurences etc., has made you shake your head and wonder if you still wanted to follow the greatest game ever?

I think it's implied that it had to be something in your lifetime.

Originally posted by sweaver
Yog, I am old enough to remember pre-Free Agency days, and it worked the same as it does now, only there were more trades. I think men deserve more say over where they work. It is too mercenary, but welcome to America.

I never quite figured out how pre-FA worked. How old is the system and how did it work back then?

Originally posted by Skipper Steve
Yog - - - the question was:

who or what people or occurences etc., has made you shake your head and wonder if you still wanted to follow the greatest game ever?

I think it's implied that it had to be something in your lifetime.

I'll try sticking to the thread this time.

[sweaver]

Wow, and I'm not even a history professor. Well, baseball was ruled for much of its history by the RESERVE CLAUSE, a sort of gentleman's agreement that I will not try to steal your players if you don't try to steal my, necessary in those early lawless days. New leagues would pop up and try to sign players, but at least within a league you weren't competing for your guys.

As time passed and things settled down, so that there were few league challenges (just the Federal League in 1914-15 and the Mexican League in the late 1940's) the Reserve Clause became little more than a way to hold down player salaries by keeping the players bound to one club. The owners continued to insist it was necessary, but legal challenges became more frequent, especially Curt Flood protesting the Cardinals trading him in 1969-70, a case that went to the Supreme Court.

In 1974, Catfish Hunter made a legal argument that Charlie Finley had violated a provision of his contract, making him a free agent. The courts agreed, and he became free to sign with anyone, inking with the Yankees. The amounts of money thrown around opened a lot of eyes.

In the 1975 season, two pitchers, Andy Messersmith and Dave McNally, laid siege at a part of the clause that said owners could simply renew the contracts of players who were unsigned. Messersmith and McNally said this meant for one year only, the owners said this meant basically forever. The courts ruled for the players. McNally retired, but Messersmith signed with the Braves for big money, and the free agent race was on.

At this point, any player could be a free agent after one year. Realizing this would mean a glut on the market, Marvin Miller negotiated free agency after a few years of service, which limited the market and drove up prices. If the owners were smart (hahaha) they would have gone for that free agency every year, and the supply-demand would have helped keep prices down.

This is part of the reason why I feel that any predicament the owners are in, they brought on themselves.

Now, aren't you sorry you asked?