Aaron goes to Disneyland

Originally posted by Skip
Anyone see the stories that via restructured contracts the Mets may land both Mo and JuanGone? They could be the Rangers of 2002.

You mean they've got a good ol' boy and a psychonut? Sign Chan Ho Park and throw in A-Rod & Pudge f/good luck.

Originally posted by SmedIndy
He's from the East. He may be more comfortable there. He went to Seton Hall, so the NY/NJ area may be to his liking more than El-Lay.

OK, that's something I can relate to. I hadn't realized he went to a Catholic university in NJ. I figure after 8 seasons in Beantown having chowder all that time, the east coast may suit him fine. At least he won't have to worry about the Duke anytime soon.

Originally posted by willyg

I cannot say this any more clear, NO!

Sele cannot beat anyone good in a big spot.

Would you take him over Orlando Hernandez or not? Over David Wells or not? I don't remember the Yanks picking up a new SP so far.

[willyg]

Aaron Sele is a regular season pitcher, (I'm not trying to come off arrogant here) the Yankee season starts about the first week in October. I would have no confidence (nor would you) in Sele pitching in any of those games. I would much rather have Boomer, or Hernandez, or Hitchcock or Mendoza starting a game in the playoffs.

That being said I think this is a good move for California.

Originally posted by willyg
Aaron Sele is a regular season pitcher, (I'm not trying to come off arrogant here) the Yankee season starts about the first week in October. I would have no confidence (nor would you) in Sele pitching in any of those games. I would much rather have Boomer, or Hernandez, or Hitchcock or Mendoza starting a game in the playoffs.

That being said I think this is a good move for California.

I see your point but big name pitchers like Johnson and Maddux never did anything in October either. Bonds hasn't done anything in October and Bernie has batted below .100 in some cases. It's a bit of a toss-up. Do you get the guy who excels in prime time or do you get the guy most likely to get you there?

I'd take the latter, since neither Pettitte nor Moose did much in the WS, but wouldn't give either up for anything. My thinking in the "big picture" is you'll either win w/pitching or simply outslug the other guys. A pitcher's duel is one of my favorites but between Giambi, Jete, Jorge, White, others, I figure slugging can be a plan B if the pitcher doesn't do so well.

I wouldn't argue with a 15-5 record, especially if the only more winning pitchers the past 3 seasons are all big names much more expensive and not coming around anytime soon. Just think, $8M doesn't seem excessive, sign him to a 3-year deal and he may win some games. I think it's a good risk.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by willyg

I cannot say this any more clear, NO!

Sele cannot beat anyone good in a big spot.

Define that, please?

[CubFan7125]

Originally posted by willyg
Aaron Sele is a regular season pitcher, (I'm not trying to come off arrogant here) the Yankee season starts about the first week in October.

That statement is the height of arrogance & is so ridiculous that it is even off the Selig scale of stupidity. I guess next year I should not bother going to Twins or White Sox games when they are playing the Yankees in June or July since the Yankees season hasn't started yet. I suppose everyone who plays the Yankees form April to September should let their relievers jog in the outfield during the game & start AA pitchers to get them some innings, since the Yankees season hasn't started yet.

The fact that the Yankees win every year doesn't bother me, that also happened in the late 20's & 50's as well, what bothers me is fans like you telling me that my team does not matter, since we are all there to wait for the Yankees to start their season in October. To even think that your season starts in October is arrogant & it is that attitude that make people hate the Yankees, not the fact that they win every year.Those 162 games are played for a reason & to suggest they don't matter is arrogance.

[BuzzBuzzard]

CubFan:

I think you are missing the point WillyG was trying to make. He wasn't saying, IMO, that the regular season doesn't count. He was saying that he had little interest in Sele since he is a poor performer in the post season. It was a little arrogant in that the expectation is that the Yanks are a lock to be playing deep into October, but his comment was more about Sele than it was the importance of the regular season.

Geez - did I just defend a Yankee fan?

[willyg]

I've got to do something right now, but I mean it more along the lines that the Yankees are built for post-season baseball. Aaron Sele is a regular season pitcher. The match is not there.

I will go into detail later.

[Duque]

Sele is just a prime example of why looking at Wins is a poor method for evaluating pitchers. The guy has more wins than anyone else in the AL the past couple of years, but who would you rather have on your team? Aaron Sele or Pedro Martinez? Sele has more wins.

He is a nice #3 starter though who can pitch 200 innings, which means the Angels should have an even better rotation next year. They could really use a #1 guy, but I don't see ownership shelling out the money for one.

Originally posted by CubFan7125
That statement is the height of arrogance & is so ridiculous that it is even off the Selig scale of stupidity. I guess next year I should not bother going to Twins or White Sox games when they are playing the Yankees in June or July since the Yankees season hasn't started yet. I suppose everyone who plays the Yankees form April to September should let their relievers jog in the outfield during the game & start AA pitchers to get them some innings, since the Yankees season hasn't started yet.

My impression of WillyG's statement was that the Yankees were an "October team", meaning that even if they just limped into September (see 2000 season), their fire starts in October. I don't see that as a reflection on other teams, nor in any way saying that the Cubs, Mets, Sox, Twins or anyone else's team is lesser or less important in any way.

It's somewhat like Secretariat: he pulled ahead in the latter part of the race. That doesn't mean the race is a lock. It just means the latter part of the race is when Secretariat could call it "prime time".

I hope that helps and doesn't come across as "arrogant" in any way, since it wasn't intended as such. I would never disrespect your baseball knowledge and overall intelligence in such a manner.

Originally posted by Duque
Sele is just a prime example of why looking at Wins is a poor method for evaluating pitchers. The guy has more wins than anyone else in the AL the past couple of years, but who would you rather have on your team? Aaron Sele or Pedro Martinez? Sele has more wins.

He is a nice #3 starter though who can pitch 200 innings, which means the Angels should have an even better rotation next year. They could really use a #1 guy, but I don't see ownership shelling out the money for one.

I think that anyone w/any common sense and baseball knowledge would take Pedro over Aaron any day. Fact is, Pedro's not available, nor are Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux or any other elite pitchers. In fact, Chan Ho Park would be a better choice, but like all the others mentioned, couldn't be had f/$8M per year.

If you were referring to comment I'd made about my liking Aaron in pinstripes, the #4 starter is what I'd intended all along. Orlando Hernandez' capabilities are questionable and someone who can get some wins will definitely drive the team further towards October to me. I say give me a gutsy pitcher who can give go 10-6 that season and I'll be happy.

Pedro, Randy, Greg would be anyone's #1 starter but Aaron I would see as a very competent starter #3 or #4 starter after Roger, Pettitte, Moose. Afterwards, it's up to Hitchcock or Orlando Hernandez and I think you've got quite a rotation.

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
Geez - did I just defend a Yankee fan?

Quick, the sky is falling and it's turning a rainbow of colors!

[CubFan7125]

I understand that when I go see the Twins play the Yankees that Yankees will probably be playing in mid to late October while Denny Hocking will be spending those same days duck hunting. Like I said, I understand that, I accept that, it's a fact of life. What is hard to accept is fans who expect October baseball to be their birthright. Whether you have won 2 World Series or 26, they are all special & should never be assumed. If you asked one of the Yankee players, Joe Torre, or Don Zimmer when the season started they would say April, not October. They would say you play the season for the privilege of playing in October. I understand a contending team being skeptical of Sele because of his post season record. But to say "the Yankee season starts about the first week in October" makes no sense to me. Millions of things could happen during the season & that is why they play those 162 games.

CubFan, I personally don't feel that any team's fan can say playing in October is a birthright. Not now, now then, not ever. Back in the 1980s, Mattingly and Winfield were two of the biggest stars of the winless 80s but it was their effort and devotion to the game which won them over.

I would also agree that each of the 162 games does in fact matter. Many Yankee fans cheer on each and every game, regardless of the opponent, or who's in or not in the opposing lineup or rotation.

It's just my impression that October was when the Yankees kicked it up a notch and became the most focused. Of course, all that's based upon having honed one's skills from ST to September 30th, but PS play is when teams have to play like superstars and perhaps willyg meant that since Sele didn't win much in October, he wasn't a fit. I don't feel that this in of itself ridicules, downplays or makes less important any other team's success and/or any of the 162 games played before the PS. I got the impression that willyg (who I'm not pretending to speak for) meant that Sele's PS play may not work well with the Yankees in October. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you care to discuss whether someone who does better in regular season as opposed to someone who does better in PS, that's up to you. I just don't feel that willyg's statement diminishes any other team and/or any other pre-October games played. I'll let you decide how you feel about this.

[CubFan7125]

Yogi, I agree with just about everything you said. I know most fans are logical and understand and appreciate the regular season. I even agree with the Sele comments, although a good pitcher, he would not have posted a similar record had he spent the last several seasons with marginal teams, such as Anaheim. His post-season #'s are so-so at best.

I just keep coming back to willyg's comment "the Yankee season starts about the first week in October". Oh well, I guess i'll just wait for him to explain it.

CubFan, I'm glad you'd understood where I was coming from. I'd gone out on a limb trying to explain it but w/o overstepping myself while at the same time, answering your questions and doing so at least thoughtfully.

I've exercised everything I can so it's willyg's turn to step up to the plate and we'll see what he says. Until then, hope all 162 games go well for both the Twins and Cubs and a great ballgame to all!