Terry Ryan’s Minnesota Twins

[Crash Course]

Originally Posted by sweaver

Your argument has become circular and your reasoning faulty.

Actually, I disagree.

My point in this is that the Twins, as a contender, had one team in their division to beat (the White Sox) and had other teams in their division to beat up on (KC, DET & CLE). And, it is my opinion that this situation was not unique only to the AL Central. The AL East has had the same structure (2 good teams, 3 weak) the last few years. And, the AL West, at times, has had only two good teams in the division. Therefore, it is unfair to say the Twins were lucky to play in the AL Central - and that's the only reason why they do well. Why not say that the A's were lucky to play in the West and the Yankees were lucky to play in the East (because they too only had one team to beat)?

That's been my point and others (in this thread) have taken it upon themselves to run down all these others paths..........and, I was stupid enough to follow. Making that decision (to chase these gooses) was my 'faulty reasoning.'

I'm taking myself off the stand now. Hey, it's an opinion piece and the point is my opinion.

If anyone who thinks the Twins were lucky to be in the AL Central, and that's the only reason why they have been a contender, wants to get on the stand and allow themselves open to the type of questioning that I have been under here, please, go for it.

Give me some proof on why the Twins do not deserve praise for their deeds because they play in the AL Central. I would love to see it.

[SmedIndy]

Toronto is not 'weak' like Detroit and KC and Cleveland have been 'weak' in the past.

Last year, Minnesota totally dominated Detroit, Tampa, and Oakland (a head scratcher) head to head - and muddled through the rest of the league. In 2002, Minnesota had a 50-25 divisional record, winning the games that counted, really.

In 2002, they had three bad teams and a mismanaged team. In 2003 they beat two OK teams.

[sweaver]

Perhaps I do not understand the premise. Is the idea that, if New York and Minnesota were to switch divisions, then New York would have won the Central and Minnesota the East the last two years? I would disagree, because Boston would have beaten Minny in 2003, and with New York taking the Central, Minnesota would have been out of the playoffs because Seattle would have taken the Wild Card. Boston also may well have beaten Minnesota in 2002, as the records were 1.5 games apart, and it is my opinion that the Central was sufficiently weaker to have made that difference "no difference," if Boston and Minnesota played in the same division.

If you are suggesting New York and Boston switch with Minnesota and Chicago, then Minnesota would almost certainly have won the division in 2002. But in 2003, with a four-game difference between Minnesota and Toronto (as well as Chicago), I think that a Blue Jay team in the race does not trade Shannon Stewart to the Twins, and quite possibly wins the East.

So yes, I think the Twins have reaped benefits from playing in the Central.

[Crash Course]

Originally Posted by sweaver

I think the Twins have reaped benefits from playing in the Central.

Tremendously more so that NY has reaped from playing in the East or Oakland has from playing in the West? How?

[nyy26wc]

Originally Posted by Crash Course

Tremendously more so that NY has reaped from playing in the East or Oakland has from playing in the West? How?

By having substantially weaker 2nd place teams to have to beat out.

[sweaver]

Originally Posted by Crash Course

Tremendously more so that NY has reaped from playing in the East or Oakland has from playing in the West? How?

I attempted to illustrate that in my post. I believe, if circumstances (and divisions) were reversed, Minnesota would at most have won one division title in the last two years, not two. I consider that a benefit.

[mgoettsche]

Originally Posted by sweaver

I attempted to illustrate that in my post. I believe, if circumstances (and divisions) were reversed, Minnesota would at most have won one division title in the last two years, not two. I consider that a benefit.

Second that...same contention I made.

[Crash Course]

Perhaps they may not have finished 1st. But, Minny would still have a very good team regardless of their division. The would be a contender, each of the last 4 years (including 2004), in any of the AL's divisions. And, they do it with a very small payroll. They deserve praise - - and they deserve praise without the added qualifier of "they should thank the AL Central."

This is my opinion. Others may differ. That's fine.

But, for me, I have yet to be convinced that anything in this post is not true.

[mgoettsche]

Originally Posted by Crash Course

Perhaps they may not have finished 1st. But, Minny would still have a very good team regardless of their division. The would be a contender, each of the last 4 years (including 2004), in any of the AL's divisions. And, they do it with a very small payroll. They deserve praise - - and they deserve praise without the added qualifier of "they should thank the AL Central."

This is my opinion. Others may differ. That's fine.

But, for me, I have yet to be convinced that anything in this post is not true.

I agree with everything you say here!

[sweaver]

Minnesota has been very successful the last few years, and I do not dispute that. This has been because of their very productive minor league system, as has been stated. But they have not been more successful than the A's, unless you use the very spurious (in my opinion) line of reasoning that since the Twins got to the second round of playoffs once, they are more successful than the A's, who haven't.

However, I believe that the Twins could have been more successful if Terry Ryan had been astute in trades as well. The Twins have more outfielders than they can use, and a desperate need for middle infielders and pitchers. That he hasn't addressed this need is to Ryan's debit, and has cost the Twins even more success.

[Crash Course]

FWIW, just tonight, I was looking over the Twins SOS from 2002 to 2004: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/rpi?season=2002

I know concede that they have had an easy go at it.