Ryne Sandberg vs Jeff Kent

[manny tortolero]

The split numbers of Ryne Sandberg from 1981 to 1992, home and away, as appears in retrosheet.org are as follows:

Home........ Away
857 games 848
3311 ab 3394
600 runs 476
1022 hits 917
178 2b 142
45 3b 22
135 hr 96
478 rbi 358
332 bb 287
460 k 488
157 sb 157
44 cs 46
.309 avg .270
.370 obp .327
.512 slg .410
.892 ops .747

Although retrosheet missed his last four seasons, Ryno's splits does not talk very well about his hitting skills out of Wrigley. In 1990, the year when he finnished as NL leader in hrs and total bases his splits were :

home......away

78 games 77
25 hrs 15
357 avg 252
405 obp 319
679 slg 453
1084 ops 772

Then you have Jeff Kent's carrer numbers, not so highlighted in awards (GG and All Star games) as Ryno, with around 3 seasons away to have comparable numbers. However, at this moment, Kent passed Ryno in hrs and rbi playing almost all his whole carrer in pitchers park. Ryno was better glove, but Kent is nothing near to a defensive liability.
If Sandberg makes the HOF any of this next years, is not making his case a good case for Kent in the future.

I guess the obvious answer is that Sandberg player pre-1994, and Kent largely after - so you have to put power numbers in context.

Plus, if a 2B had a an OPS of 'only' .747 as sandberg has on the road, and had at least 3000 Abs between 1970 and 1990...he'd be 6th of all 2Bers...behind Carew, Morgan, Sandberg, Grich and Whitaker. So even using his road split, the guy is a wonderful hitter.

Kent's a heckuva a hitter, but Sandberg deserves on his own merits regardless of how you slice it. And as long as Kent doesn't spend too much time washing his truck, he'll deserve it too.

[pwdennis]

It would be interesting to see road/home splits for Kent. My gut reaction is that Kent is a far better hitter but that Ryno was a better glove man

[Rajah]

Ryno had the benefit of playing most his career in a great hitters park, as evidenced by his splits. But, he did play in a rather low offensive era. Kent played at least some of his career in a tough hitters park (pacbell), but in a rather high offensive era. Kent has a career 125 OPS+, with highs of 165 (2000), 152 (2002), and 141 (1998). It wasn't until 1998 that he started hitting way above average though (at 30!).

Sandberg has a career OPS+ of 114, with highs of 145 (1992), 141 (1990), and 139 (1984).

They appear to be close, but Kent may be a superior hitter when all is said and done. No matter what, Kent has probably ranks amongst the best hitters after the age of 30 ever.

[Rajah]

I rescind my prior comment, insofar as my prediction he's amongst the all time best. Among 2nd basemen between 30 and 36, he's 5th in RCAA with a still impressive 212. That still fails to put him in the top 50 amongst all players though.

CAREER
2B
AGE BETWEEN 30 AND 36

RCAA RCAA
1 Rogers Hornsby 328
2 Joe Morgan 324
3 Charlie Gehringer 321
4 Nap Lajoie 248
5 Jeff Kent 212
6 Jackie Robinson 207
7 Eddie Collins 178
8 Craig Biggio 175
9 Lou Whitaker 152
10 Bobby Grich 128
T11 Roberto Alomar 116
T11 Buddy Myer 116
T13 Ryne Sandberg 110

Not bad company to keep though.

Sidenote: Buddy Myer didn't post a double digit RCAA until he was 29, with only 2 prior positives in 8 years. He finished with an RCAA of 111.

[SmedIndy]

Because of the era - it's Ryno.

[KCBOOMER]

Kent leads Sandberg in the main offensive categories of RCAA 225 to 197, OPS versus the league .087 to .069, and OWP .603 to .566. Ryne Sandberg absolutely dominates Kent in defense and base running. I would say that Sandberg has the edge, but if Kent can post two to three more years at last year's level he will probably have enough offense to offset Sandberg's strength in the other areas. Considering Kent is entering his age 36 season that might be a lot to ask.

[Iron Horse]

A lot of players did better after the age of 30 thanks to the 1990's boom, Bonds and Galaraga came to mind. Any one who plays in Wrigley should get a boost and Sandberg is among many including Banks and probably Sosa as well. So it probably a toss up between Kent and Sandberg.

[SmedIndy]

Wrigley's only helping hitters when the wind blows out. In the 80's, yes it was an offensive park due to the ashtrays that other teams had - but not now, in this era.

Last year the park factor was 99, which is about even. In 2002, it was 98. So the park helped Sandberg, but not Sosa.

[Iron Horse]

Originally Posted by SmedIndy

Wrigley's only helping hitters when the wind blows out. In the 80's, yes it was an offensive park due to the ashtrays that other teams had - but not now, in this era.

Last year the park factor was 99, which is about even. In 2002, it was 98. So the park helped Sandberg, but not Sosa.

I have seen where Sosa hit about the same amount at home as away in one season but have not really studied his record. What is an ashtray?

Please explain why there is a difference now because I do not understand. Has not the wind always blown in some days and out others. I know the Power Alleys in Wrigley are short which helps but down the line is farther than most parks which hurts.

[Skip]

Ashtrays were big circular multisport parks (Cinci, Philly, etc.) that made Wrigley small by comparison. Now we have several newer, smaller parks. Since park factors are only relative to the existing parks at the time, a park can go from a hitters park to a pitchers park with little or no change, simply because the parks to which it is compared have changed.

[Makofan]

Having watched them both, I'd rather have Ryno. He dominated his era in the NL among 2B's.

[nyy26wc]

Neither was the best, nor the 2nd best, during their respective careers.

Sandberg--

RCAA                           RCAA    
1    Lou Whitaker                263   
2    Craig Biggio                237   
T3   Ryne Sandberg               207   
T3   Roberto Alomar              207   
5    Chuck Knoblauch             152   
6    Julio Franco                116   
7    Bill Doran                   86   
8    Willie Randolph              59   
9    Delino DeShields             36   
10   Carlos Baerga                35   

Kent--

RCAA                           RCAA    
1    Craig Biggio                318   
2    Roberto Alomar              295   
3    Jeff Kent                   220   
4    Chuck Knoblauch             182   
5    Lou Whitaker                 76   
6    Edgardo Alfonzo              73   
7    Jose Vidro                   64   
8    Alfonso Soriano              58   
9    Ray Durham                   45   
10   Marcus Giles                 32   

[Makofan]

As you can see, both were second best to Biggio in the AL, but I think Sandberg fields better than Biggio, while Kent doesn't

[Golden Bear]

Kent might be better at hitting for power (although that's not certain, given the differences in era). And they're about even in hitting for average.

Baserunning, fielding, throwing, clubhouse factors -- Sandberg's advantages are so great as to render any differences at the plate wholly moot.

Sandberg is better, by a comfortable margin. And Kent may be a HOFer, so that's saying something.