Mickey Mantle or Ty Cobb

WiredTiger · 12-30-2003, 02:16 PM

Which of these two HOFers would you rather have for career/peak?

SmedIndy · 12-30-2003, 02:45 PM

Tyrus Raymond - hampered by the dead ball. He could do it all!

KCBOOMER · 12-30-2003, 03:11 PM

The three statistical categories I like to use to compare players are RCAA, OPS versus the league, and OWP. I wasn't surprised to see Cobb when the RCAA category handily (1369 to 1099), but I was surprised to see that Mick actually beat cobb in OPS versus the league (.252 to .241) and OPW (.801 to .781). This makes this an excruciating choice. To make it worse you can't split the ballot as their best five years (as measured by RCAA) are virtually identical.

I am going to go with Cobb due to longevity. He played an additional 630 games and had 3300+ additional AB's. I think Cobb's additional quantity offsets Mantles slight seasonal advantages. Kind of like how Johnson's additional quantity offsets Grove's quality edge.

gyb13 · 12-30-2003, 04:55 PM

he was an ass, but the better player

JamesI · 12-30-2003, 05:37 PM

Its a close call. Cobb had the better career, but I like MAntle's Peak more...

Skip · 12-30-2003, 05:42 PM

Cobb by both measures.

sweaver · 12-30-2003, 06:07 PM

Tyrus Raymond. I have Cobb as the #5 guy all-time, Mantle at #15.

I'd be happy with either, though.

TimmyB · 12-30-2003, 08:12 PM

Mantle peak, Cobb career... but, really, I could have voted TRC for both... but, he was such an ass, why bother...

pwdennis · 12-31-2003, 07:55 AM

Mantle for peak
Cobb for career

WiredTiger · 12-31-2003, 08:47 AM

I'd have to go with Cobb for career and a split vote on the peak. Mantle had two seasons that were better than Cobb's best season. Cobb strung together more good seasons in a row.

Wolf Hopper · 12-31-2003, 09:07 AM

Night games, planes, coast to coast travel, media pressure, modern day usage of RP, clubhouse admiration, and integration of the game, and 20 pts of OWP had me choose Mantle.

SmedIndy · 12-31-2003, 09:21 AM

Day games in the hot sun, trains, flannel uniforms, longer road trips, self pressue, and performance when everyone was out to get him - that's why Cobb's the one.

manny tortolero · 12-31-2003, 09:21 AM

"Night games, planes, coast to coast travel, media pressure, modern day usage of RP, clubhouse admiration, and integration of the game, and 20 pts of OWP had me choose Mantle."

I agree in all this. And the game was very different in Cobb's times, probably less technic and knowledege of how works the game and more heart, muscles and lungs.

huskerdru · 12-31-2003, 09:57 AM

I take Cobb for peak and career. When raw and adjusted numbers don't help significantly differentiate players, I like to look at leaderboard presence (I'm not focusing on Mantle's 3 MVPs to Cobb's 1 - apples and oranges):

#Times Leading League:

Cobb: AVG-11;OBP-7;SLG-8;OPS-10 (the first in 1906 and 2nd in 1927!);RUN-5;Hits-8;Total Bases-6;2B-3;3B-4;HR-1;RBI-4;SB-6;Adjusted OPS+-11 (incl. 9 years in a row);XBase Hits-3

Mantle: AVG-1;OBP-3;SLG-4;OPS-6;RUN-6;Total Bases-3;3B-1;HR-4;RBI-1;BB-5;AdjOPS+-8 (incl 4 in a row);XBase Hits-3

This is an admittedly limited evaluation, but helps inform, IMHO, the statistical analysis, which doesn't seem to help establish a clear peak or career leader.

rcartman28 · 12-31-2003, 11:08 AM

Mantle for peak, Cobb for career, and Mantle for going out with after the games.

View Poll Results: Mantle or Cobb
Mantle	3	7.50%
Cobb	23	57.50%
Mantle Peak, Cobb Career	14	35.00%
Cobb Peak, Mantle Career	0	0%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

12-30-2003, 03:11 PM	#3
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	The three statistical categories I like to use to compare players are RCAA, OPS versus the league, and OWP. I wasn't surprised to see Cobb when the RCAA category handily (1369 to 1099), but I was surprised to see that Mick actually beat cobb in OPS versus the league (.252 to .241) and OPW (.801 to .781). This makes this an excruciating choice. To make it worse you can't split the ballot as their best five years (as measured by RCAA) are virtually identical. I am going to go with Cobb due to longevity. He played an additional 630 games and had 3300+ additional AB's. I think Cobb's additional quantity offsets Mantles slight seasonal advantages. Kind of like how Johnson's additional quantity offsets Grove's quality edge. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

12-30-2003, 04:55 PM	#4
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	cobb he was an ass, but the better player __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

12-31-2003, 07:55 AM	#9
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	Mantle for peak Cobb for career __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

12-31-2003, 09:07 AM	#11
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Night games, planes, coast to coast travel, media pressure, modern day usage of RP, clubhouse admiration, and integration of the game, and 20 pts of OWP had me choose Mantle. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

12-30-2003, 02:16 PM	#1
WiredTiger Guest Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The city of Kaline, Cobb and Greenberg Posts: 3,395	Mickey Mantle or Ty Cobb Which of these two HOFers would you rather have for career/peak?

12-30-2003, 02:45 PM	#2
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Tyrus Raymond - hampered by the dead ball. He could do it all!

12-30-2003, 05:37 PM	#5
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	Its a close call. Cobb had the better career, but I like MAntle's Peak more...

12-30-2003, 05:42 PM	#6
Skip NetShrine Vagabond Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisville Posts: 7,866	Cobb by both measures.

12-30-2003, 06:07 PM	#7
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Tyrus Raymond. I have Cobb as the #5 guy all-time, Mantle at #15. I'd be happy with either, though.

12-30-2003, 08:12 PM	#8
TimmyB NetShrine's Magic 8-Ball Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Where the cops speak slow and the air is nice Posts: 2,591	Mantle peak, Cobb career... but, really, I could have voted TRC for both... but, he was such an ass, why bother...

12-31-2003, 08:47 AM	#10
WiredTiger Guest Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The city of Kaline, Cobb and Greenberg Posts: 3,395	I'd have to go with Cobb for career and a split vote on the peak. Mantle had two seasons that were better than Cobb's best season. Cobb strung together more good seasons in a row.

12-31-2003, 09:21 AM	#12
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Day games in the hot sun, trains, flannel uniforms, longer road trips, self pressue, and performance when everyone was out to get him - that's why Cobb's the one.

12-31-2003, 09:21 AM	#13
manny tortolero NetShrine MVP Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Caracas, Venezuela Posts: 298	"Night games, planes, coast to coast travel, media pressure, modern day usage of RP, clubhouse admiration, and integration of the game, and 20 pts of OWP had me choose Mantle." I agree in all this. And the game was very different in Cobb's times, probably less technic and knowledege of how works the game and more heart, muscles and lungs.

12-31-2003, 09:57 AM	#14
huskerdru Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame Join Date: May 2003 Location: Motown (or just north of it) Posts: 540	I take Cobb for peak and career. When raw and adjusted numbers don't help significantly differentiate players, I like to look at leaderboard presence (I'm not focusing on Mantle's 3 MVPs to Cobb's 1 - apples and oranges): #Times Leading League: Cobb: AVG-11;OBP-7;SLG-8;OPS-10 (the first in 1906 and 2nd in 1927!);RUN-5;Hits-8;Total Bases-6;2B-3;3B-4;HR-1;RBI-4;SB-6;Adjusted OPS+-11 (incl. 9 years in a row);XBase Hits-3 Mantle: AVG-1;OBP-3;SLG-4;OPS-6;RUN-6;Total Bases-3;3B-1;HR-4;RBI-1;BB-5;AdjOPS+-8 (incl 4 in a row);XBase Hits-3 This is an admittedly limited evaluation, but helps inform, IMHO, the statistical analysis, which doesn't seem to help establish a clear peak or career leader. __________________ "Computers are stupid; they can only give you answers." - Pablo Picasso

12-31-2003, 11:08 AM	#15
rcartman28 NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hudson, WI Posts: 1,408	Mantle for peak, Cobb for career, and Mantle for going out with after the games. __________________ I would have looked out for the water main. But that's just me..... Brett Favre

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