Keith Hernandez or John Olerud?

sweaver · 02-23-2004, 10:26 AM

Two lefty first basemen.....who was/is better?

gyb13 · 02-23-2004, 02:16 PM

very similar players with the bat:

Code:

1974-2003 1B
AVERAGE vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
OBA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
SLG vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
PLATE APPEARANCES displayed only--not a sorting criteria

RCAA                           RCAA      AVG      OBA      SLG      PA     
1    Mark McGwire                667    -.003     .059     .175     7602   
2    Jeff Bagwell                663     .031     .071     .126     8629   
3    Frank Thomas                505     .063     .112     .190     4089   
4    Eddie Murray                494     .027     .038     .086    10382   
5    Will Clark                  473     .037     .048     .086     8283   
6    Fred McGriff                470     .019     .041     .096     9732   
7    Rafael Palmeiro             454     .023     .036     .104     8694   
8    Jason Giambi                425     .034     .083     .129     4664   
9    Jim Thome                   398     .012     .073     .152     4432   
10   John Olerud                 382     .030     .064     .048     7950   
11   Carlos Delgado              377     .020     .065     .145     4644   
12   Keith Hernandez             363     .032     .054     .045     8553

slight advantage to Olerud

JamesI · 02-23-2004, 02:27 PM

Olerud better.

TGwynn19 · 02-23-2004, 03:22 PM

About equal at the plate, slight edge to Hernandez with the glove. I chose Hernandez. Plus Olreud was never on Seinfeld!

Crash Course · 02-23-2004, 03:50 PM

Code:

ALL LEAGUES & TEAMS
1974-2003
1B
RCAA >= 25


1    Jeff Bagwell             12   
2    Eddie Murray             11   
3    Mark McGwire             10   
T4   Rafael Palmeiro           9   
T4   Fred McGriff              9   
T6   Will Clark                8   
T6   Keith Hernandez           8   
T8   Jim Thome                 7   
T8   Frank Thomas              7   
T10  Jason Giambi              6   
T10  Carlos Delgado            6   
T10  John Olerud               6   
T10  Don Mattingly             6   
T10  Mo Vaughn                 6

Mex was just a little more consistent than Olie. John had some big years - 1993 and 1998 - that inflate his career numbers a bit.

pwdennis · 02-24-2004, 09:16 AM

I picked Olerud, but Hernandez was better defensively. If this were a position other than 1B, that defensive edge would suffice to move Hernandez up over Olerud

Golden Bear · 02-24-2004, 10:45 PM

Olerud is a nice player who has quietly compiled some excellent stats.

Hernandez's numbers are basically just as good, allowing for differences in
era, but more relevantly he just seems like a more consequential player.

This is mostly gut feel, but I think it's clearly Mex.

KCBOOMER · 02-24-2004, 11:31 PM

I prefer Olerud who has been one of the fine overlooked players of his era.

LeGrandOrange · 02-25-2004, 01:36 AM

Even though I love Johnny O, I have to pick Keith for career. John, however, wins peak value rather handily because of his two monster years.

Olerud's been an overlooked player, definitely, but I overlooked Keith even more. I only just realized how good of a hitter he was, and thus only just understood why he's been on the HOF ballot all of these years.

I can't really explanate the vote without frivolous usage of RCAP...since I'm the only person who actually has a use for the stat, I'll save y'all the analysis.

gyb13 · 02-25-2004, 11:35 AM

Olerud 1993 for peak
Mex for career

Makofan · 02-27-2004, 11:05 AM

Hernandez. Johnny O is just so slooowwwww

sweaver · 02-27-2004, 11:19 AM

Hernandez wasn't exactly a speed demon either.

Makofan · 02-27-2004, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweaver

Hernandez wasn't exactly a speed demon either.

I guess I'm thinking of the 98 career Stolen Bases vs Ollie's 11

nyy26wc · 02-27-2004, 11:41 AM

Olerud's approaching the record for worst SB, vs. the league average, among 1B. He's been at least -7 vs. the league every year of his career, except for a -6 season in 1996. Meanwhile, Hernandez is also in the top 20.

Code:

STOLEN BASES                    DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE   
1    Chris Chambliss            -122       40      162   
2    Steve Garvey               -121       77      198   
3    Fred Luderus               -118       55      173   
T4   Don Mattingly              -115       14      129   
T4   John Olerud                -115       11      126   
6    Mark McGwire               -111       12      123   
7    Mark Grace                 -110       70      180   
T8   Jason Thompson             -105        8      113   
T8   Fred McGriff               -105       69      174   
10   Tony Perez                 -103       30      133   
11   Tino Martinez               -99       22      121   
12   Willie McCovey              -97       20      117   
13   Will Clark                  -95       67      162   
14   Eddie Murray                -94       92      186   
15   Keith Hernandez             -89       98      187   
T16  Wally Joyner                -83       60      143   
T16  J.T. Snow                   -83       15       98   
18   John Mayberry               -81       20      101   
T19  Cecil Fielder               -80        2       82   
T19  Eric Karros                 -80       58      138

But, Olerud's still the better player.

View Poll Results: Keith Hernandez or John Olerud?
Keith Hernandez	5	22.73%
John Olerud	9	40.91%
Hernandez for peak, Olerud for career	5	22.73%
Olerud for peak, Hernandez for career	3	13.64%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

02-23-2004, 10:26 AM	#1
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Keith Hernandez or John Olerud? Two lefty first basemen.....who was/is better?

02-23-2004, 03:50 PM	#5
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	Code: ALL LEAGUES & TEAMS 1974-2003 1B RCAA >= 25 1 Jeff Bagwell 12 2 Eddie Murray 11 3 Mark McGwire 10 T4 Rafael Palmeiro 9 T4 Fred McGriff 9 T6 Will Clark 8 T6 Keith Hernandez 8 T8 Jim Thome 7 T8 Frank Thomas 7 T10 Jason Giambi 6 T10 Carlos Delgado 6 T10 John Olerud 6 T10 Don Mattingly 6 T10 Mo Vaughn 6 Mex was just a little more consistent than Olie. John had some big years - 1993 and 1998 - that inflate his career numbers a bit. __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

02-24-2004, 09:16 AM	#6
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	I picked Olerud, but Hernandez was better defensively. If this were a position other than 1B, that defensive edge would suffice to move Hernandez up over Olerud __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

02-24-2004, 11:31 PM	#8
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	I prefer Olerud who has been one of the fine overlooked players of his era. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

02-23-2004, 02:27 PM	#3
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	Olerud better.

02-23-2004, 03:22 PM	#4
TGwynn19 Guest Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 2,087	About equal at the plate, slight edge to Hernandez with the glove. I chose Hernandez. Plus Olreud was never on Seinfeld!

02-24-2004, 10:45 PM	#7
Golden Bear NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,100	Olerud is a nice player who has quietly compiled some excellent stats. Hernandez's numbers are basically just as good, allowing for differences in era, but more relevantly he just seems like a more consequential player. This is mostly gut feel, but I think it's clearly Mex.

02-25-2004, 01:36 AM	#9
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	Even though I love Johnny O, I have to pick Keith for career. John, however, wins peak value rather handily because of his two monster years. Olerud's been an overlooked player, definitely, but I overlooked Keith even more. I only just realized how good of a hitter he was, and thus only just understood why he's been on the HOF ballot all of these years. I can't really explanate the vote without frivolous usage of RCAP...since I'm the only person who actually has a use for the stat, I'll save y'all the analysis.

02-25-2004, 11:35 AM	#10
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	Olerud 1993 for peak Mex for career __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

02-27-2004, 11:05 AM	#11
Makofan Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 791	Hernandez. Johnny O is just so slooowwwww

02-27-2004, 11:19 AM	#12
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Hernandez wasn't exactly a speed demon either.

02-27-2004, 11:41 AM	#14
nyy26wc NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 14,584	Olerud's approaching the record for worst SB, vs. the league average, among 1B. He's been at least -7 vs. the league every year of his career, except for a -6 season in 1996. Meanwhile, Hernandez is also in the top 20. Code: STOLEN BASES DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE 1 Chris Chambliss -122 40 162 2 Steve Garvey -121 77 198 3 Fred Luderus -118 55 173 T4 Don Mattingly -115 14 129 T4 John Olerud -115 11 126 6 Mark McGwire -111 12 123 7 Mark Grace -110 70 180 T8 Jason Thompson -105 8 113 T8 Fred McGriff -105 69 174 10 Tony Perez -103 30 133 11 Tino Martinez -99 22 121 12 Willie McCovey -97 20 117 13 Will Clark -95 67 162 14 Eddie Murray -94 92 186 15 Keith Hernandez -89 98 187 T16 Wally Joyner -83 60 143 T16 J.T. Snow -83 15 98 18 John Mayberry -81 20 101 T19 Cecil Fielder -80 2 82 T19 Eric Karros -80 58 138 But, Olerud's still the better player. __________________ Lee Creator, Complete Baseball Encyclopedia. It's powerful, yet extremely easy to use. Features extensive sorting and stat display options. The CBE has many features that are not available in online and printed sources. Has 2006 stats and daily update service for 2007.

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