Ray Lewis vs. LT

[Craig S.]

Ray Lewis is undoubtedly the best defensive player in the NFL, and he won his second Defensive Player of the Year award today:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1697627

In the article, Ronnie Lott says that Lewis should be considered the best ever if he keeps this up for a few more seasons. Since LT is generally considered the benchmark at this point, who would you rate higher? And why?

[rcartman28]

Kind of a tossup.....LT has been a crack addict, done "60 Minutes", and written a book or two about how screwed up he is while Lewis has only been charged with murder although he was acquitted. I think Lewis needs to do a few more things first.

Oh, on the football field ?? As good as Lewis is, LT changed entire offenses to account for him and still took over games. My money right now would be on LT in his prime.

[Wolf Hopper]

Has Lewis ever won a game, by himself, with only one arm functioning? LT did.

[Gosfgiants]

As good as Lewis is Taylor was just more dominating. The two TE set exists because of LT. He was the most dominant defensive player I've ever watched. How many other defenders get named league MVP?

[Ytown Tribe fan]

LT. His Giants were in the top half of the NFL defensively every season he played -- half the time near the top, the other half near the middle.

The Ravens' defense was near the bottom of the pack the first three years that Lewis played, shot to the top for a couple of years, then back down for a year.

LT had a lot of help from Harry Carson. Lewis has a lot of help from Rod Woodson et al.

LT was simply more dominating for nearly all of his 13 years, Lewis has been great for a few years.

[SmedIndy]

Could a case be made for neither - and perhaps someone like Ray Nietchzke (sp) or maybe Deacon Jones? Just wonderin'....

[LeGrandOrange]

I think Ray Lewis is a little bit overrated, but he's still an excellent player.

However, he doesn't really deserve comparsions to Lawrence Taylor. Lawrence played outside, Ray plays inside. Lawrence was a threat to sack quarterbacks, Ray Lewis specializes in pursuit. Same position, but totally different games.

He MIGHT redefine inside linebacking like LT did outside, but at the moment, I don't know who the "standard" is there.

[jzmet]

LT forced offenses to alter not just plays, but their entire offensive game plan. He was the first defender to combine the great skills and determination with something that lacked in defenses until then--speed. Speed until then was concentrated on the other side of the football. There wasn't a QB in the league, even Randall Cunningham, who could outrun LT.

Perhaps a better question(and another thread) should be Ray Lewis vs Mike SIngletary, since they both play(ed) inside.

[Craig S.]

Next to Torry Holt, Ray Lewis is probably my favorite player. There's no better team leader, he's an amazing talent, he busts his ass, and he's the most intense player I've seen since Mike Singletary. All that being said, though, I don't know that he'll ever surpass LT.

The comparison is difficult to make, considering their positions. For one thing, their positions entail different expectations. Taylor was expected to go after the QB, while Lewis is expected to focus on the running game or drop back in coverage more often. It's reflected in the fact that Taylor averaged more sacks over 2 years than Lewis has to this point in his career. And it goes the other way, too, as evidenced by Lewis already having 20 picks as compared to the 9 LT had for his career.

One thing I love about both of these guys is that they played through pain. Although he finally missed a chunk of time last season, Lewis had played with injuries for much of the previous 2 seasons, including their Super Bowl victory. For LT, I think the most obvious evidence of his ability to stand pain came in that 1988 game against the Saints, when he put up 3 sacks and forced a couple of fumbles with his shoulder in a harness because of a torn pec. You'd be hard-pressed to get many of us to lift a pen with an injury like that.

I think it's interesting, too, that both players have found themselves in bad company or doing distasteful things. LT has talked openly of using coke and prositutes - I guess those often go hand-in-hand. And Lewis has made a pretty incredible turnaround for a guy who was charged with murder a couple of years ago. I remain convinced that his biggest mistake was choosing the wrong crowd to hang around with, but it could have cost his career. He's had the opportunity to use that as motivation for becoming a better, more disciplined player, and I wonder how good LT could have been if he'd had that chance to focus only on football.

The reason I give LT the edge is that he changed the game - not just a game, but the way the linebacker position was played. He was the first great attacking linebacker with the speed to chase a mobile QB. Lewis is hands-down the best at what he does, but I think he'd need to keep up the level he played at this season for another 5 years to merit consideration as the greatest.

One other thing, a good point raised by Smed - no offense is intended towards Nitschke,Butkus or others. They may have been as good as either of these guys, but LT is the one generally talked about as the best. I'm sure much of that is generational, or due to the fact that he played later than those others.

[Wolf Hopper]

I would just like to add - to those who say LT as just a pass rusher - the SOB was SO FAST that he routinely brought down RBs - - FROM BEHIND. I saw him do it all the time - - get to the QB, stop on a dime, head up field, and then bring down the ball carrier.

To think of him as just a sack artist is not fair to him.

[Craig S.]

Originally Posted by Wolf Hopper

I would just like to add - to those who say LT as just a pass rusher - the SOB was SO FAST that he routinely brought down RBs - - FROM BEHIND. I saw him do it all the time - - get to the QB, stop on a dime, head up field, and then bring down the ball carrier.

To think of him as just a sack artist is not fair to him.

Agreed - he put up some big tackle numbers, which is difficult to do for a guy who attacked the line so often. He had the skill not ony to get back into the play, but to make the play.

Sacks got him his glory, but I think most fans appreciate him for more than that. I never liked the Giants, and it pained me to watch him sometimes because he was so good.

[JamesI]

Its too early I think for Lewis to be compared to LT.

Of course, I'm not sure LT is deserving of the position over Deacon Jones.

[SmedIndy]

It was a different game and players changed games differnetly back in the day.

The best defensive player may NOT get many tackles or sacks because he occupies so many blockers.

[Gosfgiants]

One other thing LT would do was go for the ball. He was the first guy to try to pop the ball out when sacking the QB. One his patented moves would be to chop the passer's elbow to force a fumble. Today you see it done all the time.

[Joseph]

I don't think Ray Lewis has (or will) surpases LT, but I think there is a good chance he can end his career as the best inside linebacker of all time.

I wonder... if LT was coming up today would he still have been placed at outside linebacker? With all of these various zone-blitzes and cover 2 defenses perhaps coaches would have put him as an inside LB, or maybe even a outside lineman.