Your Pick For 2004 - Vazquez v. Schilling

Wolf Hopper · 12-04-2003, 12:02 PM

Javier Vazquez or Curt Schilling
which pitcher would you rather have for 2004?
And, why?

sweaver · 12-04-2003, 12:20 PM

Vazquez. Schilling is a terrific pitcher, but at his age there is the distinct possibility of a crash-and-burn.

gyb13 · 12-04-2003, 12:36 PM

Code:

RSAA	    2000 2001 2002 2003   age
Schilling     22   47   36   34    37
Vazquez       14   31    6   48    27

i'm really really happy with this acquisition, as vazquez is one of my favorite (fantasy) pitchers....

JamesI · 12-04-2003, 12:41 PM

Vasquez because of the age gap. Schilling is more likely to collapse.

Jim Rice · 12-04-2003, 01:00 PM

I need to qualify my answer. In a neutral, non-pressurized situation, I'd say they're about even money to pitch well in 2004. And obviously, for the long term, Vasquez is the better bet because of his age.

That said, I chose Schilling, because the reality of the situation is different than the generic question as asked. Vasquez is about to find out what it's like to pitch with people watching and some folks don't react too well to that. While Vasquez certainly seems like a cool head who can handle this kind of pressure, if this was the kind of thing that could be predicted, the Yankees wouldn't have traded for the likes of Weaver, or Mondesi, or Knoblauch, or Juan-pitch Acevedo, or any number of other people who have gone to New York and suddenly deteriorated. Some folks thrive on it (a la Jeter and Bernie Williams), some folks don't (a la Mo Vaughn or Mondesi or Weaver). Until Vasquez gets there, it's hard to tell which way he'll go. While I would bet that he turns out fine, I KNOW Schilling isn't affected by that kind of pressure.

For one year only, with the ring on the line in a pressure cooker situation like the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry, give me the veteran who has already got one ring and really wants another.

Wolf Hopper · 12-04-2003, 01:06 PM

Good point Jim Rice.
One nitpick: Mondesi didn't cave in NY - he was what he always was. Weaver and Knobby lost their head.

Acevedo? Was he ever any good? That might be a reach.

But, back on topic, until Vazquez suits up in NY, there is a ?
Big difference between NY and Montreal. Huge.

KCBOOMER · 12-04-2003, 02:37 PM

Went with "Not Sure" for all the reasons above.

TGwynn19 · 12-04-2003, 03:19 PM

Vazquez. Now the world will know what we all know. He's a stud.

huskerdru · 12-04-2003, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Rice

I need to qualify my answer. In a neutral, non-pressurized situation, I'd say they're about even money to pitch well in 2004. And obviously, for the long term, Vasquez is the better bet because of his age.

That said, I chose Schilling, because the reality of the situation is different than the generic question as asked. Vasquez is about to find out what it's like to pitch with people watching and some folks don't react too well to that. While Vasquez certainly seems like a cool head who can handle this kind of pressure, if this was the kind of thing that could be predicted, the Yankees wouldn't have traded for the likes of Weaver, or Mondesi, or Knoblauch, or Juan-pitch Acevedo, or any number of other people who have gone to New York and suddenly deteriorated. Some folks thrive on it (a la Jeter and Bernie Williams), some folks don't (a la Mo Vaughn or Mondesi or Weaver). Until Vasquez gets there, it's hard to tell which way he'll go. While I would bet that he turns out fine, I KNOW Schilling isn't affected by that kind of pressure.

For one year only, with the ring on the line in a pressure cooker situation like the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry, give me the veteran who has already got one ring and really wants another.

Ummmm...what he said!!

Ytown Tribe fan · 12-04-2003, 06:49 PM

Ditto what JimRice said, word for word.

Schilling probably still has a big season (and a big post-season) left in him, for a contender. After that -- forget it.

Wolf Hopper · 12-04-2003, 08:12 PM

The pitcher most like Vaz in the last 30 years is John Smoltz, IMHO:

Code:

1973-2003

AGE <= 26
INNINGS PITCHED BETWEEN 1220 AND 1230
STRIKEOUTS >= 150 vs. the league average
STRIKEOUTS/WALKS vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
BASERUNNERS/9 IP vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria

RSAA                           RSAA      IP       SO      SO/BB   BR/9 IP   
1    Javier Vazquez               52   1229.1      150     1.33     1.22   
2    John Smoltz                  45   1223.1      151     0.25     0.72

The year Smotz was 27, he had a terrible year. Actually, it was a terrible 1st 1/2 half and a great 2nd 1/2, IIRC, FWIW.

LeGrandOrange · 12-04-2003, 08:42 PM

I picked Vazquez...though he pitches for the Evil Empire, I still like Javy exponentially more than I've ever liked Schilling.

clemente21 · 12-04-2003, 11:21 PM

I picked Vazquez as well. He's really emerged over the last four years. His relatively poor 2002 was heavily because of nagging injuries, stuff that might have kept him on the DL longer for another team with real pitching depth. We don't know how he's going to react to the pressure - but given the unbalanced schedule he has the potential to be a 22 game winner.

dbergs17 · 12-08-2003, 10:34 PM

While Schilling is obviously going to help by having a big offense to give him 5-6 runs for every game, we must recognize that being a right-handed power pitcher, the balls are gonna fly in fenway in that short right field fence. I'd take Vazquez. He's gonna win just as many wins behind just as good of a lineup, AND he has his age on his side. Curt's gonna slow down any day now.

cubfan33 · 12-08-2003, 11:05 PM

I'll take Schilling, thanks. He's beaten Vazquez three of the last four years in RSAA and was pretty good last year despite a pair of non-pitching injuries.

View Poll Results: Schilling or Vazquez in 2004 - Which Would You Rather Have?
Javier Vazquez	11	57.89%
Curt Schilling	5	26.32%
Not Sure - Pick 'em	3	15.79%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

12-04-2003, 12:02 PM	#1
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Your Pick For 2004 - Vazquez v. Schilling Javier Vazquez or Curt Schilling which pitcher would you rather have for 2004? And, why? __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

12-04-2003, 12:36 PM	#3
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	Code: RSAA 2000 2001 2002 2003 age Schilling 22 47 36 34 37 Vazquez 14 31 6 48 27 i'm really really happy with this acquisition, as vazquez is one of my favorite (fantasy) pitchers.... __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

12-04-2003, 01:06 PM	#6
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Good point Jim Rice. One nitpick: Mondesi didn't cave in NY - he was what he always was. Weaver and Knobby lost their head. Acevedo? Was he ever any good? That might be a reach. But, back on topic, until Vazquez suits up in NY, there is a ? Big difference between NY and Montreal. Huge. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

12-04-2003, 02:37 PM	#7
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	Went with "Not Sure" for all the reasons above. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

12-04-2003, 12:20 PM	#2
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Vazquez. Schilling is a terrific pitcher, but at his age there is the distinct possibility of a crash-and-burn.

12-04-2003, 12:41 PM	#4
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	Vasquez because of the age gap. Schilling is more likely to collapse.

12-04-2003, 01:00 PM	#5
Jim Rice Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Shawnee, KS Posts: 783	I need to qualify my answer. In a neutral, non-pressurized situation, I'd say they're about even money to pitch well in 2004. And obviously, for the long term, Vasquez is the better bet because of his age. That said, I chose Schilling, because the reality of the situation is different than the generic question as asked. Vasquez is about to find out what it's like to pitch with people watching and some folks don't react too well to that. While Vasquez certainly seems like a cool head who can handle this kind of pressure, if this was the kind of thing that could be predicted, the Yankees wouldn't have traded for the likes of Weaver, or Mondesi, or Knoblauch, or Juan-pitch Acevedo, or any number of other people who have gone to New York and suddenly deteriorated. Some folks thrive on it (a la Jeter and Bernie Williams), some folks don't (a la Mo Vaughn or Mondesi or Weaver). Until Vasquez gets there, it's hard to tell which way he'll go. While I would bet that he turns out fine, I KNOW Schilling isn't affected by that kind of pressure. For one year only, with the ring on the line in a pressure cooker situation like the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry, give me the veteran who has already got one ring and really wants another.

12-04-2003, 03:19 PM	#8
TGwynn19 Guest Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 2,087	Vazquez. Now the world will know what we all know. He's a stud.

12-04-2003, 06:49 PM	#10
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Ditto what JimRice said, word for word. Schilling probably still has a big season (and a big post-season) left in him, for a contender. After that -- forget it.

12-04-2003, 08:12 PM	#11
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	The pitcher most like Vaz in the last 30 years is John Smoltz, IMHO: Code: 1973-2003 AGE <= 26 INNINGS PITCHED BETWEEN 1220 AND 1230 STRIKEOUTS >= 150 vs. the league average STRIKEOUTS/WALKS vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria BASERUNNERS/9 IP vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria RSAA RSAA IP SO SO/BB BR/9 IP 1 Javier Vazquez 52 1229.1 150 1.33 1.22 2 John Smoltz 45 1223.1 151 0.25 0.72 The year Smotz was 27, he had a terrible year. Actually, it was a terrible 1st 1/2 half and a great 2nd 1/2, IIRC, FWIW. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

12-04-2003, 08:42 PM	#12
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	I picked Vazquez...though he pitches for the Evil Empire, I still like Javy exponentially more than I've ever liked Schilling.

12-04-2003, 11:21 PM	#13
clemente21 All-NetShrine Team Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 461	I picked Vazquez as well. He's really emerged over the last four years. His relatively poor 2002 was heavily because of nagging injuries, stuff that might have kept him on the DL longer for another team with real pitching depth. We don't know how he's going to react to the pressure - but given the unbalanced schedule he has the potential to be a 22 game winner. __________________ Nick "I would like to be someone who would like to be me." - Jan Nordgreen

12-08-2003, 10:34 PM	#14
dbergs17 Having A NetShrine Cup Of Coffee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Bornx Posts: 8	While Schilling is obviously going to help by having a big offense to give him 5-6 runs for every game, we must recognize that being a right-handed power pitcher, the balls are gonna fly in fenway in that short right field fence. I'd take Vazquez. He's gonna win just as many wins behind just as good of a lineup, AND he has his age on his side. Curt's gonna slow down any day now.

12-08-2003, 11:05 PM	#15
cubfan33 NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 1,359	I'll take Schilling, thanks. He's beaten Vazquez three of the last four years in RSAA and was pretty good last year despite a pair of non-pitching injuries. __________________ UTK available only at www.baseballprospectus.com "I was pulling for Pete and agreeing with (commissioner) Bud Selig that Pete should be eligible for the Hall of Fame," said Giles, now chairman of the Phillies. "Bud was close to making him eligible right after his meeting with Pete (November 2002). Right after that, Pete got into tax trouble (in California), and that delayed the process." - Phillies Chairman Bill Giles in the Dayton Daily News, January 25th, 2004.

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